Making a steer wider through the back

[Nubz]

I have a march 2015 calf and he is an Unstoppable and monopoly calf anyway we live in WI and they live outside. He weighs around 800 pounds should I try starting to get him wider through the back or wait. Our fair is August. This is our first true clubby calf so I am learning a lot. Thank You for thoughts and any other suggestions

 

[blackdirt cowboy]

I'm not sure what you mean by "making him wider through the back," but it's time to get him on full feed and push him on. Depending on when your show is, you have roughly 180 days left. If he gains three pounds a day, that will make him weigh 1340 come show time. Some of these clubby cattle will gain that easily. Then again, for some, that will be a struggle. Good luck.

 

[ROMAX]

This may be old wives tale,but I was told to tie them with there heads up for hours a day to strengthen their top?

 

[Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns]

This may be old wives tale,but I was told to tie them with there heads up for hours a day to strengthen their top?

let cows be cows, even if that does work (which I doubt) what cow wants to be tied with their head up for hours at a time? Also you may fix it in that calf's phenotype but the genotype for a broken top is still there. The best thing I have found for structure is good selective breeding and lots of opportunity for the calves to move around.

 

[Bradenh]

Have you ever tired to fit or clip on one that's not used to standing? Or seen one not used to standing lay down regularly at a show. And to my knowledge it doesn't matter on a steer how his genotype will pass on for top shape, however phenotype is a small bit important when they start passing out checks. Sure cattle that exercise are great but yes tying a head up will build top shape and endurance (it won't make them any wider on the caboose)

That's a non educated response that I would ignore if I was a jr kid seeking advice on cattle. Crank their heads up it will teach them to lay down when untied, work their top shape, and teach them to be still when they need to

 

[Chuck Wagon]

All good points Showstopper.  I don't know whether or not that tying their heads up for hours a day will widen their back but tying their head up builds strength and endurance to stand in that position without fidgeting. 

Think about a typical show.  Wash rack, clipping stand and finally the show.  They have been tied up for a couple of hours to this point.  Now you take them to a Major show.  What if you win first, then you come back for Champion, what if you win there, and come back for Grand Drive.

They could easily be standing for several hours in one spot with their head up and need to be conditioned for this position.  If you never tie their head up, wash, rinse, etc.. during the season, you probably won't have the success you would like to have. 

 

[vc]

To add to show stoppers post, it can also help with a heavy headed steer, there is nothing worse than a steer who is heavy headed, they can flat  wearout a kid.
We tied ours high for an hours prior to rinsing and blowing, then another hour prior to kicking out, do they were tied high for about 3 hours straight.
I did have someone who spent a lot of time with calves tell me if the calf had any structure issues it was best to tie them more often for shorter periods, standing in the same position for long periods of time seemed to exaggerate the issues over time. Something to think about.

 

[Bradenh]

That's very true especially front knee issues tied on an incline it will blow one out

 

[SlickTxMaine]

NUBZ - Do you mean wider across the top of the back or making his butt wider?  A lot has to do with genetics and their true potential.  You can help with finish and muscle.  For his butt - I have heard people say walk them a lot especially up and down a hill.  At 800 lbs he is still pretty green.  Pour the feed to him and get him finished and he will get wider.  Think about ways to build muscle - exercise as well as supplements.  Make sure when you set him up he is standing with a wide stance with his feet - that will help him appear wider as well.  Posting a picture would help others give you an opinion.  Good luck!

 

[OH Breeder]

I have a march 2015 calf and he is an Unstoppable and monopoly calf anyway we live in WI and they live outside. He weighs around 800 pounds should I try starting to get him wider through the back or wait. Our fair is August. This is our first true clubby calf so I am learning a lot. Thank You for thoughts and any other suggestions

Clarify your "wide in the back"
Wider top? Stand wider? Wider butt?

 

[Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns]

Have you ever tired to fit or clip on one that's not used to standing? Or seen one not used to standing lay down regularly at a show. And to my knowledge it doesn't matter on a steer how his genotype will pass on for top shape, however phenotype is a small bit important when they start passing out checks. Sure cattle that exercise are great but yes tying a head up will build top shape and endurance (it won't make them any wider on the caboose)

That's a non educated response that I would ignore if I was a jr kid seeking advice on cattle. Crank their heads up it will teach them to lay down when untied, work their top shape, and teach them to be still when they need to

I've clipped a lot of calves that wouldn't stand well, practically none of those have been my calves. Maybe I wasn't clear in relaying my point. When we are working show calves they spend a couple of hours a day tied up, typically however long it takes to rinse, blow, clip if needed, practice showmanship, etc. We have always found that to be plenty of time for the calves to be tied up. Our calves lead well, show well, can be fit/clipped in the stall. My point was there is no reason (at least in my opinion) to leave calves tied up for an extended period of time, especially not unattended (There is a lot of potential for injury).
As for the genotype point.... obviously the steer is not going to produce any offspring directly. However, the steer is living, breathing proof that the parents that produced the steer have the capabilities of producing weak topped offspring. Also I was intending for the point to be applied in a broader sense to heifers and bulls as well.

This is just my opinion, no one else has to agree with it, I understand that a lot of people do not. However, it is an opinion and a practice that I have developed based on 15+ years of experience working with hundreds of show calves. So to say my comment is uneducated I believe would be far from the truth.

 

[Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns]

Its kind of ironic, showstopper95, that you referred to my comment as "non educated."

 

[Bradenh]

I've got nothing else left to say I think it's beyond idiotic to not tie heads up for an extended period or to endorse and say you doubt it works what else is to be said? I think its uneducated, idiotic, ill informed, moronic, dumb, stupid, and lazy, obviously im not the only one that thinks that. Put whatever adjective you want on it that's irrelevant. I didn't call you uneducated I referenced that idea as such, and clearly im not the only one disagreed with you

Sorry I didn't respond my email didn't send a notification and im in San Antonio getting heifers ready

With heads up

Not tying heads up is uneducated bar none it's not a good idea

 

[Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns]

I obviously am not saying you should never tie a calf's head up, I don't think you are getting my point. A calf that is tied up for the amount of time it takes to work and groom the calf properly every day is going to learn to stand. Maybe we run a different type of show circuit here than where you are. I have been aged out for several years now, but in the peak of my time showing as a youth we were showing at somewhere between 20 and 35 shows in a calendar year (I think our record was 38 in one year). By the time a calf has been to 10 or 15 shows they will pretty much do anything you ask of them. I guess if you are showing at 2 shows with a calf, more time tied up at home becomes important. But for us that has never been a problem. Our calves get worked enough on a regular basis that extra time tied up is not necessary. At some point calves need to be calves, they need to breath some fresh air, run, buck, kick, get some exercise. Our calves end up spending so much time with their head tied up being worked with for other reasons, that it becomes redundant to tie them up just for the sake of tying them up. We see better performance if we give the calves an opportunity to be loose and freshen up. Contrary to what many people believe, show calves do not have to be tied in a barn all day every day. I don't expect to change your mind, obviously your are passionate about tying heads up. But just because you (or anyone else) disagree with my method doesn't meant that it can't work for me, or that I do it because I am a lazy idiot

 

[Jive Turkey]

I obviously am not saying you should never tie a calf's head up, I don't think you are getting my point. A calf that is tied up for the amount of time it takes to work and groom the calf properly every day is going to learn to stand. Maybe we run a different type of show circuit here than where you are. I have been aged out for several years now, but in the peak of my time showing as a youth we were showing at somewhere between 20 and 35 shows in a calendar year (I think our record was 38 in one year). By the time a calf has been to 10 or 15 shows they will pretty much do anything you ask of them. I guess if you are showing at 2 shows with a calf, more time tied up at home becomes important. But for us that has never been a problem. Our calves get worked enough on a regular basis that extra time tied up is not necessary. At some point calves need to be calves, they need to breath some fresh air, run, buck, kick, get some exercise. Our calves end up spending so much time with their head tied up being worked with for other reasons, that it becomes redundant to tie them up just for the sake of tying them up. We see better performance if we give the calves an opportunity to be loose and freshen up. Contrary to what many people believe, show calves do not have to be tied in a barn all day every day. I don't expect to change your mind, obviously your are passionate about tying heads up. But just because you (or anyone else) disagree with my method doesn't meant that it can't work for me, or that I do it because I am a lazy idiot

This.

 

[knabe]

so how does one monitor/measure making a steer wider through the back?


calipers?  before and after tying up?


the easiest, most tried and true way to make them wider through the top is to clip them that way.


one could also try bee stings. bot flies.