Michael Vick being allowed to play football. Good or Bad

[BIGTEX]

What about breeders who intentionally use HW knowing that there is a high probability of the calf having to be pulled out the side?  Isn't that kind of cruel?  I won't do it to my cows.  What makes those breeders better than Michael Vick?

How many calves are cut out the side of cows? What is the% compared to other bulls with high birth weights? Was it a combination of Sire BW and Dam BW?

 

[tama]

scary agreeing with Knabe!! we set the penalty he paid it. Goodell really has no choice but to let him in.And if he plays we recoup some of the funds we paid to incarcerate him! Gonewest was right on also.And Knabe was right on money with the Ray Lewis shot-I do not condone what Vick did nor his life style but if you choose him for role model that is shame on us! And the long and short of story greed wins out everytime he will sign and play because NFL owners think of only one thing themselves 

 

[Doc]

I say let him play. I would like to see him earn some money to pay back the $4 million he is short in his bankruptcy filing. $16 mil in assets & $20 mil in debt.

 

[Dusty]

I think he should be allowed to play.  He paid his debt to society.  I won't argue that he is a thug.  The vast majority of professional athletes more or less are.  They get paid high salaries because people like you and watch them and go to games etc.  I would rather see the players getting that money instead of it just going to into the owners pockets.

As for being role models... They aren't asked to be role models, they are asked to perform an athletic sport at a superior level.  Thats their job description.  Last time I checked no one got paid 10million/year for their exemplary character...

 

[kimbaljd]

mmmmmmmmmm.......................... I think it'd be unfair and probably unconstitutional to keep him from playing. No matter your thoughts on what he did, people have killed people and not suffered the total punishment this guy has. Next, if you and Arthur Blank and the comish think that he is the only guy in football that has had anything to do with fighting dogs,  (clapping)   (lol)   I'd love for you and them to go in together to buy some of this swamp land I have for sale or maybe even this bridge I've been trying to move. It's a culture. Be thankful that most of you live in rural areas and have never even seen "the hood."

While no one loves or respects animals more than I, I feel that some among us have placed animals, especially wildlife, horses and pets, at a level above humanity. It is believed worse to kill a dog than a person. While there is no denying the hideousness of what he was involved with, I think that spending time in prison and losing millions of dollars plus public humiliation is punishment enough.

Not long ago there was a feature article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution about how the roosters raised in Georgia were highly valued in fights in Mexico and since the recent laws concerning transportation of "Game" roosters across state lines have been enacted, they were having trouble getting them back to Mexico. A man who worked in the same company I did several years ago used to go to Louisiana and New Mexico to legal cock fights and make from $10,000-$30,000 a trip. When I heard that 15 years ago he paid $12,000 for a breeding rooster, it got my attention. There is nothing different about what this guy did than what Vick did in my view. One was legal, one was not. Now it has been outlawed in all states, but I bet that most weekends here if I asked around I could find out where the "chicken fight" was going on that weekend. From time to time the sheriff raids these places and writes tickets to those who he catches. No one keeps them from returning to their jobs the next Monday, they spend no time in jail and the instigators usually pay $250 in fines. What they do is just as bad as what Vick did, yet we have placed a higher penalty on him because he was involved with a different animal.

If you'd like to make the point that these "chicken fighters" that I speak of are not role models for children as are NFL stars, I would say that the fact that ball players are role models for our children is our fault. Our society has elevated celebrities to that status when in fact they are mere mortals who make mistakes and do stupid things just as everyone else. Our role models should be our service men and women, our teachers, our first responders, our pastors and not someone who just by the grace of God is able to run faster or throw a ball harder than someone else.

Let him play. He payed the debt society placed on him. What he did was not a capital offense.

Great post! I agree completely. People have lost all sense of reality when it comes to pets.

 

[kimbaljd]

if you want to get technical, how many cows has heat wave killed by throwing big calves and he is still being used.

Bad Heat Wave!!!! Bad!!! You shouldve made your calves smaller, your goin to club calf jail!!! Bad!

Heat Wave has no control over his genetic material, mike vick has control over wether or not he fights dogs.

i think you are missing the point. people don't have to use heat wave and they still do. he is just good enough that the big calves don't matter. michael vick is good enough that you accept the baggage.

Then dont blame heat wave blame the people who use him, hmmm... some of the best breeders in the country.

THEY WERE NOT BLAMING THE PRECIOUS HEATWAVE.

 

[CJC]

good or bad, society agreed on the penalty.  he paid it.  if you don't allow him to work, he won't pay taxes on the revenue and he will be a drain on society, and america, the country of 2nd chances will have lost one of it's most precious assets. (2nd chances, not vick).

if you don't like the penalty, vote someone in office who will make the penalty more than ted kennedy paid. and many others.

knabe
i don't think he was paying his taxes any way (no for sure on that)

 

[LN]

I think the guy should be allowed to play. As was said in previous posts, he has served the penalty society gave him, and he should be allowed to persue his life again. There are several bad asses in pro sports, and he is just another. If he comes back and does the right things, I think he could turn into a real role model, but if he gets in trouble again, he is toast. It should be no different for him as it is for anyone else. The guy has got talent, but he grew up in an area where he learned some bad behavior.Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes.

We have several dog trainers from the southern US that come here every year to train dogs. One family has come here from Georgia every year since the mid 30s. They spend their summers here and head home in the fall. I have become very good friends with a dog trainer from Alabama who purchased a small farm close to me. He just arrived this week with about 15 dogs. He always has a few dogs that are trained to kill. They are used in hunting coons and/ or coyotes,and they are sent out when the animal is close to being captured, to kill it. I have often wondered about the ethics in this, and it is not something I would ever do or be a part of, but I know it is considered to be an ordinary part of the hunt. I sometimes wonder how Michael Vick's actions, were much worse.

You bring up a very good point. I live in an area that is infested with feral hogs, and some people have dogs trained to hunt down these feral hogs and injure them to the point where the hunter can shoot the hog. Often, when the dogs are in pursuit one or more will get injuries from the hog or even killed by it. Should those people go to jail?

 

[the angus111]

IT IS SAD TO ME,THAT SPORTS STARS ARE ROLE MODELS TO BEGIN WITH.I ENJOY SPORTS.REALITY IS VERY FEW YOUNG PEOPLE BECOME SPORT STARS AT THE ELITE LEVEL.AG TEACHERS,COUNTY AGENTS,PARENTS GRAND PARENTS ETC,THESE ARE ROLE MODELS!!!!! ATHELETES LIVE IN A FANTASY WORLD.WE IN RURAL AMERICA LIVE INTHE REALWORLD.VICK WILL PLAY AGAIN.MORE ATHELETES ,MOVIE STARS AND POLITICIANS WILL GET IN TROUBLE.RUSTY

 

[JbarL]

alot of sports stars dont ask to be role models...but its hard for 13/15 yr kids old not to admire the great ones talents....jack asses or not....if you concentrate on admiring the talent and not the lifestyle...then theres still room for jack ass athletes.....how many police officers killed there wives/ domestic paartners/ or felony drunk driving with casualties/...or domestic violence charges last year.....you may find the statics a bit alarming when compared to professional sports....not all people that should be role models are....jbarl

 

[knabe]

i don't think he was paying his taxes any way (no for sure on that)

on the dog fighting stuff.  that's one reason why he settled.

the most important role model are parents.

 

[Jill]

mmmmmmmmmm.......................... I think it'd be unfair and probably unconstitutional to keep him from playing. No matter your thoughts on what he did, people have killed people and not suffered the total punishment this guy has. Next, if you and Arthur Blank and the comish think that he is the only guy in football that has had anything to do with fighting dogs,  (clapping)   (lol)   I'd love for you and them to go in together to buy some of this swamp land I have for sale or maybe even this bridge I've been trying to move. It's a culture. Be thankful that most of you live in rural areas and have never even seen "the hood."

While no one loves or respects animals more than I, I feel that some among us have placed animals, especially wildlife, horses and pets, at a level above humanity. It is believed worse to kill a dog than a person. While there is no denying the hideousness of what he was involved with, I think that spending time in prison and losing millions of dollars plus public humiliation is punishment enough.

Not long ago there was a feature article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution about how the roosters raised in Georgia were highly valued in fights in Mexico and since the recent laws concerning transportation of "Game" roosters across state lines have been enacted, they were having trouble getting them back to Mexico. A man who worked in the same company I did several years ago used to go to Louisiana and New Mexico to legal cock fights and make from $10,000-$30,000 a trip. When I heard that 15 years ago he paid $12,000 for a breeding rooster, it got my attention. There is nothing different about what this guy did than what Vick did in my view. One was legal, one was not. Now it has been outlawed in all states, but I bet that most weekends here if I asked around I could find out where the "chicken fight" was going on that weekend. From time to time the sheriff raids these places and writes tickets to those who he catches. No one keeps them from returning to their jobs the next Monday, they spend no time in jail and the instigators usually pay $250 in fines. What they do is just as bad as what Vick did, yet we have placed a higher penalty on him because he was involved with a different animal.

If you'd like to make the point that these "chicken fighters" that I speak of are not role models for children as are NFL stars, I would say that the fact that ball players are role models for our children is our fault. Our society has elevated celebrities to that status when in fact they are mere mortals who make mistakes and do stupid things just as everyone else. Our role models should be our service men and women, our teachers, our first responders, our pastors and not someone who just by the grace of God is able to run faster or throw a ball harder than someone else.

Let him play. He payed the debt society placed on him. What he did was not a capital offense.

Great post! I agree completely. People have lost all sense of reality when it comes to pets.

Excellent post, we as a society have placed our pets value above that of human life, and in this case I believe the media made an example out of Vick.  The records of the professional athletes are appalling, but shame on us for allowing them to be role models, many grew up in poverty ridden urban areas and have values that are skewed, they are celebs because of what they have accomplished on the field, they are NOT role models because they have lived exemplary lives.
I don't understand how there can be a question of whether or not he will be allowed to play again.  Vick was sentenced in court, served his time and is now out of prison, where is the controversy? are x-prisoners not allowed to work?

 

[farmboy]

yea put him back in prison. just another black guy fighting dogs. just a matter of time before rapes or kills someone over drugs or something

WHAT DID I HURT YOUR FEELINGS "CLONENTX"??

don't send me any more of your garbage about how i offended you because black people are more likely to murder or rape than any other race on earth and the facts are there to back it up fool.

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

You can sure see the racial overtone's coming out now can't we? There are truth's in a lot of these posts on both sides. The fact remains, he paid his debt to society. Who put any of us in charge of how he will or will not conduct his life from now on? Some of you people are dispicable hypocrits when hiding behind this computer.It's down right shameful. Everyone has an opinion on what his sentence could have or should have been,and that's fine,but when you see people destroying people and never doing time,that's far worse than dog fighting. Desatoying someone with vile words on a computer screen without knowing any thing about that person,proves only without doubt what fools really exist. he deserves to work and pay taxes like anyone else,no matter whether it's minimum wage or millions.Most of you guys get on my case for my political believes,then turn around say some of the stupidest things I have ever heard.In this case,or any other case where something of this or human nature is involved,judgement should be reserved for judgement day.We all know who that judge is,don't we?

 

[OH Breeder]

yea put him back in prison. just another black guy fighting dogs. just a matter of time before rapes or kills someone over drugs or something

WHAT DID I HURT YOUR FEELINGS "CLONENTX"??

don't send me any more of your garbage about how i offended you because black people are more likely to murder or rape than any other race on earth and the facts are there to back it up fool.

Zach,
I am not sure whether the statement is a quote or your statement. But if that is the way you feel then when you get out in the world as an adult you will definitely have a hard time- that is blatant racism. Irregardless how you feel about one race or another I really don't feel like this board is a place to state those kinds of opinions. Note I said "I". Others may feel the same or join you in your sentiment. If you are a biggot then keep it to yourself. God doesn't judge skin color only deeds and actions- white, yellow, black or red doesn't matter.

 

[OH Breeder]

yea put him back in prison. just another black guy fighting dogs. just a matter of time before rapes or kills someone over drugs or something

WHAT DID I HURT YOUR FEELINGS "CLONENTX"??

don't send me any more of your garbage about how i offended you because black people are more likely to murder or rape than any other race on earth and the facts are there to back it up fool.

Zach,
I am not sure whether the statement is a quote or your statement. But if that is the way you feel then when you get out in the world as an adult you will definitely have a hard time- that is blatant racism. Irregardless how you feel about one race or another I really don't feel like this board is a place to state those kinds of opinions. Note I said "I". Others may feel the same or join you in your sentiment. If you are a biggot then keep it to yourself. God doesn't judge skin color only deeds and actions- white, yellow, black or red doesn't matter.

FYI- I do live in the hood. I was able to find a home close to the airport and all the major highways and still get to the farm on my days off and weekends. I am definitely a minority in my neighborhood but we are pretty diverse. Lots of different colors and people in our area. Most people are nice and call it "transistional". I will tell you there is just as much white trash as there are bad black folks. You learn to accept your surroundings or get out. It is called tolerance.

 

[knabe]

government statistics back this up.  in 2002, whites, which include hispanics for stats purposes, comprised about 80% of the population and committed 30-60% of the crime such as murder, rape, bulglary etc (8 categories).  blacks, which comprise about 12% of the population, commit about the same amount of crime.  so for pure statistics, they are about 7 times as likely to commit various crime than whites.  interestingly, whites seem to be interested in arson much higher than any other race, about 4-5 times higher than blacks.

of course there are a variety of reasons for this, but most point to LBJ and the great society when the american experience started to wean black women from black men and made it difficult for black men to find and keep work, hence, our current situation.  things are changing for the good though, but it's interesting to me that the most prevailing stereotyping is by different races against themselves for being "white".  that is bigotry and probably more damaging.

of course what police forces choose to focus on and where is also a factor in crime stats.  there is lots of misinformation regarding crime stats, some of it to pass laws to satisfy interest groups that do nothing but divide.

 

[farmboy]

FWIW i am replying to some stupid PM someone sent me. facts are facts xxxxxxxxxxx from texas.

 

[clonentx]

God I hope your not an adult,

Anyway ZACH i sent you a PM, i did this because my displeasure with your comments were not for the big board, but we"re here now- so exactly what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to embarrass me? Attempting to get someone else to join or admit to this negative thinking. I gave you my real name as well as my location........................i really hope your not an adult(especially one raising kids)..........So like I said, here we are tell me how you really feel? No my felings didnt get hurt. ignorance is a cancer that left unchecked grows faster than mold. which is why I pm'd you. Im a lurker, I listen to things i think are ignorant all the time. So respond prove your ignorant......again, and satisfy your ego.

CLONENTX
you know the real name

 

[farmboy]

if you see a possum is it fact you saw a possum!? facts are facts!