mosque on hallowed ground
- Thread starter gw197510
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trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
NO DICE is my vote. America is freedom of religion but this seems distasteful to me. If they do build one, you know some crazy arian nation people or KKK people will blow it up anyways. Why go through all the trouble.
aj
Well-known member
On AOL page this morning a article, or whatever, stated that alot of Americans think Ohama is probably Muslim.
Well I don't think Obama is Muslim. Mainly because it is against their religion to claim they are anything but Muslim and he's been saying he's a Christian for quite a while now.
Also, I do believe that they have the right, protected by the First Amendment to build a Mosque on private property anywhere... However that doesn't mean that they SHOULD. Aside from the emotional feelings many have about, You can be assured that the Radical Muslims overseas will see this as a victory - even if they are not connected to this Mosque at all. Years ago, when one country conquered another what was the first thing they typically did? They would erect a flag from their home country. To me, this is sort of like that concept and I think it would be viewed like that in the Middle East among the Radical Islamic community.
Would I support Obama using federal troops to stop construction, or Gov. Patterson using national guard troops? No. But I do think both of them can use their positions of authority to help negotiate and resolve this problem.
Also, I do believe that they have the right, protected by the First Amendment to build a Mosque on private property anywhere... However that doesn't mean that they SHOULD. Aside from the emotional feelings many have about, You can be assured that the Radical Muslims overseas will see this as a victory - even if they are not connected to this Mosque at all. Years ago, when one country conquered another what was the first thing they typically did? They would erect a flag from their home country. To me, this is sort of like that concept and I think it would be viewed like that in the Middle East among the Radical Islamic community.
Would I support Obama using federal troops to stop construction, or Gov. Patterson using national guard troops? No. But I do think both of them can use their positions of authority to help negotiate and resolve this problem.
If we stand for what we say we stand for, I think we have to allow it.
As long as its done tastefuly.
I don't really care what they think of it overseas. They will always talk to hear themselves talk.
I have direct contact with people of the muslim faith and the ones I know were just as outraged as the rest of us at 9/11.
That attack and the subsequent wars resulted in the deaths of a lot more muslims than Christians. Many of whom were innocents killed by terrorists in their home countries for supporting us. We don't publish numbers on others casualties. I wish we did.
As long as its done tastefuly.
I don't really care what they think of it overseas. They will always talk to hear themselves talk.
I have direct contact with people of the muslim faith and the ones I know were just as outraged as the rest of us at 9/11.
That attack and the subsequent wars resulted in the deaths of a lot more muslims than Christians. Many of whom were innocents killed by terrorists in their home countries for supporting us. We don't publish numbers on others casualties. I wish we did.
box6rranch
Well-known member
They need to do a thourough investigation as to exactly where the funds would be coming from to build it. Also from what I've heard no construction companies are even willing to build it there.
I agree it's their right to build but also that they are either callous for wanting to build it there or they have another agenda.
I agree it's their right to build but also that they are either callous for wanting to build it there or they have another agenda.
All religion aside, because I agree that our laws allow them to do it, but why are they not taking our feelings into account? On a whole, I would venture to say that a majority of American's get a little emotional when thinking of 9/11. I know I do. So, why can't the people behind this whole ordeal just find another location? To me, I feel like they are rubbing our noses in the tragedy. But, that is just me.
OLD WORLD SHORTIE
Well-known member
you guys are so tolerent. im sure yall will accept sharia law too, look at what France's tolerence got them. People are afraid to go into their communities, secular and christian people are treated like trash by the muslims.
Hell they took over the gas stations, now the hotels pretty soon well all be showing camels. That aint my culture and i have a right to be intolerent.
Hell they took over the gas stations, now the hotels pretty soon well all be showing camels. That aint my culture and i have a right to be intolerent.
knabe
Well-known member
what if they find indian bones underneath the building?
why doesn't the greek orthorodox church have a permit yet, i think it's actually closer?
what is the past history of those involved in the mosque of tolerance?
will both sexes be allowed in the pool at the same time?
will there be a dress code, and will it be specific with regard to religion?
what has the imam been involved with in the past?
what does a minaret mean?
why is there a mosque on top of solomon's temple? mohammed never went there, he rose to heaven in a dream from there, which i don't believe and that belief should be tolerated by non-muslims rather than death threats.
will the imam speak out regarding fatwa's on salmon rushdie and others who choose to have a different opinion than islam?
why do entire teams have to change their practice schedule to accommodate one player? will the player give up ramadan during any of those days.
what are the different levels of holiness? will muslims cede any territory? why don't muslim countries give up territory for palestinians? there were options after wwii, but they refused. they wanted ALL the middle east. has anyone looked at grade school books in the middle east regarding jews and non-muslims? how will this imam address this?
islam regards any site in spain they took as holy till charles martel stopped them. people forget the crusades can be interpreted as a response to islam rather than the other way around, yet people seem actually eager to give islam the benefit of the doubt rather than the other way around.
liberals are simply too quiet on equality with regards to islam and a little too loud regarding christianity, especially the ACLU.
why is the US government financing islam funding this trip? i thought we were supposed to be separating church and state? why does anyone need to understand islam if islam won't understand and accommodate other cultures? i sense a huge disparity in understanding. i understand dhimmitude and refuse it.
http://answersforthefaith.com/2010/08/18/us-taxpayers-are-funding-mosques-overseas/
The mosque’s namesake was the Muslim conqueror of Christian Egypt, who built the structure on the site where he had pitched his tent before doing battle with the country’s Byzantine rulers. For those who think the Ground Zero Mosque is an example of “Muslim triumphalism” glorifying conquest, the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque is an example of such a monument – and one paid for with U.S. taxpayer funds.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/tax-dollars-to-build-mosques/
Section 205.1(d) of title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USAID funds from being used for the rehabilitation of structures to the extent that those structures are used for "inherently religious activities." It is impossible to separate religion from a mosque; any such projects will necessarily support Islam.
i currently reject current incursion of an intolerant belief system in the name of tolerance.
if liberals/progressives would act a little more consistently with regard to tolerance they would have some credibility. ask dr. laura.
more.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.5e4d052d8a65c3e244b3cae1bab6a2bb.291&show_article=1
where is islam's tolerance of not drawing attention to itself? when will the shoe ever be on the other foot with regard to islam? they get to scream offense offense at the drop of christianity.
of course people wearing crosses that are visible are offensive to muslims or atheists, but where is the outrage from them regarding islam? no where because it doesn't fit the template.
the day a christian walks to mecca and can touch the rock is the day i view islam making progress on tolerance. anyone ever see the signs on the way to the Haj?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1
even mareen dowd has dowbts.
anyone ever read about sir richard burton (not the actor)?
http://www.shiaforums.com/vb/showthread.php?491-These-are-some-amazing-pictures!-Hajj-In-1953&s=e9c48adc5522d42c36442fb0a10b1e19
why doesn't the greek orthorodox church have a permit yet, i think it's actually closer?
what is the past history of those involved in the mosque of tolerance?
will both sexes be allowed in the pool at the same time?
will there be a dress code, and will it be specific with regard to religion?
what has the imam been involved with in the past?
what does a minaret mean?
why is there a mosque on top of solomon's temple? mohammed never went there, he rose to heaven in a dream from there, which i don't believe and that belief should be tolerated by non-muslims rather than death threats.
will the imam speak out regarding fatwa's on salmon rushdie and others who choose to have a different opinion than islam?
why do entire teams have to change their practice schedule to accommodate one player? will the player give up ramadan during any of those days.
what are the different levels of holiness? will muslims cede any territory? why don't muslim countries give up territory for palestinians? there were options after wwii, but they refused. they wanted ALL the middle east. has anyone looked at grade school books in the middle east regarding jews and non-muslims? how will this imam address this?
islam regards any site in spain they took as holy till charles martel stopped them. people forget the crusades can be interpreted as a response to islam rather than the other way around, yet people seem actually eager to give islam the benefit of the doubt rather than the other way around.
liberals are simply too quiet on equality with regards to islam and a little too loud regarding christianity, especially the ACLU.
why is the US government financing islam funding this trip? i thought we were supposed to be separating church and state? why does anyone need to understand islam if islam won't understand and accommodate other cultures? i sense a huge disparity in understanding. i understand dhimmitude and refuse it.
http://answersforthefaith.com/2010/08/18/us-taxpayers-are-funding-mosques-overseas/
The mosque’s namesake was the Muslim conqueror of Christian Egypt, who built the structure on the site where he had pitched his tent before doing battle with the country’s Byzantine rulers. For those who think the Ground Zero Mosque is an example of “Muslim triumphalism” glorifying conquest, the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque is an example of such a monument – and one paid for with U.S. taxpayer funds.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/tax-dollars-to-build-mosques/
Section 205.1(d) of title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USAID funds from being used for the rehabilitation of structures to the extent that those structures are used for "inherently religious activities." It is impossible to separate religion from a mosque; any such projects will necessarily support Islam.
i currently reject current incursion of an intolerant belief system in the name of tolerance.
if liberals/progressives would act a little more consistently with regard to tolerance they would have some credibility. ask dr. laura.
more.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.5e4d052d8a65c3e244b3cae1bab6a2bb.291&show_article=1
where is islam's tolerance of not drawing attention to itself? when will the shoe ever be on the other foot with regard to islam? they get to scream offense offense at the drop of christianity.
of course people wearing crosses that are visible are offensive to muslims or atheists, but where is the outrage from them regarding islam? no where because it doesn't fit the template.
the day a christian walks to mecca and can touch the rock is the day i view islam making progress on tolerance. anyone ever see the signs on the way to the Haj?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1
even mareen dowd has dowbts.
anyone ever read about sir richard burton (not the actor)?
http://www.shiaforums.com/vb/showthread.php?491-These-are-some-amazing-pictures!-Hajj-In-1953&s=e9c48adc5522d42c36442fb0a10b1e19
simtal
Well-known member
problem is
all terrorists happen to be muslim
not all muslims happen to be terrorists
I guess I dont understand why they need to build it there? Just because they can?
all terrorists happen to be muslim
not all muslims happen to be terrorists
I guess I dont understand why they need to build it there? Just because they can?
justintime
Well-known member
There is probably no legal reason this mosque cannot be built on this site, but I think this has more to do with perception, taste and good old decency and respect. By building this mosque in this location, it leaves a silent presumption of the Muslim world thumbing their noses at the Free World. I also agree that there has to be an inquiry as to where the funds for building this are coming from. There are many who firmly believe that it is going to receive mega dollars from Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries.
In the past couple days I have heard two Muslim leaders in the US and Canada interviewed on this topic. I was very pleased to hear them both say that they opposed this project, and they made extremely perfect sense in their comments. Both said that building this, would leave the wrong impression with America and for that reason they wanted another site to be selected. I happen to agree with them. So... what is with the Mayor of New York, who is a Jew himself, supporting the building of the mosque on this location? That seems very weird to me.
The proposed site is two blocks north of where the twin towers were located, but it is connected to 911 because the building on that location was badly damaged by the landing gear of one of the planes that was used. Personally, I think this would be a good location for a 7 Eleven.
In the past couple days I have heard two Muslim leaders in the US and Canada interviewed on this topic. I was very pleased to hear them both say that they opposed this project, and they made extremely perfect sense in their comments. Both said that building this, would leave the wrong impression with America and for that reason they wanted another site to be selected. I happen to agree with them. So... what is with the Mayor of New York, who is a Jew himself, supporting the building of the mosque on this location? That seems very weird to me.
The proposed site is two blocks north of where the twin towers were located, but it is connected to 911 because the building on that location was badly damaged by the landing gear of one of the planes that was used. Personally, I think this would be a good location for a 7 Eleven.
Grew up in that neck of the woods. Lost many friends and an uncle between Sept. 11 and the prior attempted attack on the WTC. I'm all about religous freedom and tolerance, but common decency (something in short supply these days) would suggest that this plan is hurtful to the families and friends of the victims. I understand that there mosque conforms to all the building/planning regulations and can't be blocked by that avenue. If the money all comes together... and it can't be blocked by declaring the existing building a historical structure... hopefully no one is desperate enough for a job to work on the construction. I'm tired of political correctness!!
cowz
Well-known member
- Joined
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If you read about fundamental Islam, the tradition is to build a mosque at the site of a victory over your enemies. Note that there is now a mosque at the site of the first Israelite temple in Jerusalam.
Have we gotten so blind and politically correct that we cannot see what is right in front of us. I call this the dumbing down of America.
Read the Chapter of Revelations?! Who said we should know our history so we do not repeat it?
Have we gotten so blind and politically correct that we cannot see what is right in front of us. I call this the dumbing down of America.
Read the Chapter of Revelations?! Who said we should know our history so we do not repeat it?
cowz said:
The Temple Mount in Jerusalem is equally "holy" to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All three share belief if much of the Old Testament. The Temple Mount is where Abraham was going to sacrifice his son and that story is just as revered by Islam as it is us. That is where Islam also believes Mohammed was taken to heaven. That's why they have a mosque there, not because of a victory. That mosque has been there since before the Crusades in the middle ages and its why the Christians didn't destroy it then.
A little off subject, but the real history behind interactions between Jews, Christians, and Muslims is very interesting reading if you'll read straight histories of it, not politicized versions.
When Muslims conquered Israel - they did not persecute Christians or Jews because all three figured that since each believed in one God, they all believed in the same same one. Adherents to religons that believed in multiple gods were put to the sword if they refused conversion.
At the time the Crusades occurred, Jerusalem was populated by many more Jews and Christians than Muslims. The Crusaders killed them all the first time they took the City.
Religion was used as an excuse for the Crusades, but they are now generally believed by historians to have been truly more about getting young Europen soldiers and knights to quit killing each other and to find money.
Most Muslims and Jews in Jersusalem today get along just fine with one another. It's common to take tours where you have both local Muslim and Jewish guides.
I have many friends that have served in Iraq and Afghanistan as officers and enlisted soldiers. Without exception, they tell me that religous differences aren't that big of an issue amongst normal people. The real problem is poverty in that part of the world that the few radicals take advantage of the despair and lack of hope that goes along with it.
oakbar
Well-known member
I think CPL and JIT's posts put together kind of sum it up for me. In a nut shell:
Is it legal---YES!!
Will the majority of the Muslim world feel they put one over on us---Probably!!
Will the majority of the Christian world feel they put one over on us----Absolutely!!
Will funds be used to build it that come from groups who sponsor terrorism---Almost certainly!!
Is it smart to build it where it will upset so many people--NO!!
Should we stop it from being built or defend it being built with our armed forces--Doesn't rise to that level of action!!
If its built will it become a haven for terrorists-----probably, its hard to sift the good from the bad within one religion!!
Could we use a leader to step forward and negotiate a meaningful compromise---Absolutely!!
Do we have a leader with any common sense in the White House or the mayor's office---obviously not!!
Who has offered the best solution to this point---believe it or not, Lame duck Governor Patterson. He has offered to open a discussion about it and offer other sites owned by the state as alternatives. Pretty sad when this guy is the best leader we have in times of need!!
Bottom line is its never a good idea to build anything-- marriage, business, church, or outhouse-- if there's a lot of disagreement before you start. The first will end in divorce, the second in bankruptcy, the third will never be attended by the ones that should attend, and the fourth---well, if its in the wrong place people just won't use it and you'll end up with a lot of stink for nothing. We really need some leaders who can show leadership!! JMHO
Is it legal---YES!!
Will the majority of the Muslim world feel they put one over on us---Probably!!
Will the majority of the Christian world feel they put one over on us----Absolutely!!
Will funds be used to build it that come from groups who sponsor terrorism---Almost certainly!!
Is it smart to build it where it will upset so many people--NO!!
Should we stop it from being built or defend it being built with our armed forces--Doesn't rise to that level of action!!
If its built will it become a haven for terrorists-----probably, its hard to sift the good from the bad within one religion!!
Could we use a leader to step forward and negotiate a meaningful compromise---Absolutely!!
Do we have a leader with any common sense in the White House or the mayor's office---obviously not!!
Who has offered the best solution to this point---believe it or not, Lame duck Governor Patterson. He has offered to open a discussion about it and offer other sites owned by the state as alternatives. Pretty sad when this guy is the best leader we have in times of need!!
Bottom line is its never a good idea to build anything-- marriage, business, church, or outhouse-- if there's a lot of disagreement before you start. The first will end in divorce, the second in bankruptcy, the third will never be attended by the ones that should attend, and the fourth---well, if its in the wrong place people just won't use it and you'll end up with a lot of stink for nothing. We really need some leaders who can show leadership!! JMHO
knabe
Well-known member
chambero said:
the conflict in the middle east revolves entirely over the birthright of isaac (through who the 12 tribes of israel came) and ishmael (who mohammed came through) for land. ishamel was born first, not to sarah, and isaac was born second to sarah, hence, the disagreement as the first born got inheritance. i think ishmael and his mother are born in the same place and it is obviously a holy muslim site.
there is some disagreement within islam whether abraham was going to offer up isaac or ishmael.
conveniently, mohammed went to heaven in a dream from the temple mount and never actually was ever there.
knabe
Well-known member
knabe said:
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