N/C goat AI breeding question

[frostback]

I know it can be done but has anyone done it? Are there AI clinics for learning on a goat? How different than a cow, I know you dont insert anything other than a a straw gun but how different is the semen handling? Is it frozen like bovine?

 

[breyfarm]

There is a place not too far from here (IN) called JVC genetics (www.jvcgenetics.com) Might be somethin your looking for but if sheep is the same as goats then yes they can freeze the semen, but in sheep you cant AI in through the cervix it has to be planted into the unterine horn or lumen. And this place does it using laparoscopic technology. I watched them do it and its really neat, although expensive, and he said they were starting to do goats but only close to 10 places in the united states that does it. Hope this helps somewhat
Also, most of these people bring in thier rams and have them collected then not too much longer later transfered in donor ewes for flushing or frozen for later breeding

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I have AIed goats and will be doing more this next breeding season for some friends.  Semen handlin is exactly the same, though almost all goat semen comes in 1/4cc straws instead of 1/2 cc.  I actually find AIing goats to be much easier than cattle.  You do AI through the cervix, you place a speculum into the vagina and you can see the opening of the cervix.  You simply pass the AI rod into the opening and continue forward until you feel it "pop" through the 3 rings of the cervix, then deposit your semen slowly just as you would in a cow.  On some bigger/older does that have kidded more than a few times it can be very difficult to feel the "pops" in the cervix. But in those does a lot of times I end up passing the rod as far as i can and then depositing the semen.  I synchronize does with CIDRS, same situation as with cattle except the times are a little different, I would have to look up my protocal to tell you because I dont remember it off top of my head.  A lot of people like to just keep records of cycles so they know when to watch them and just breed on a natural heat.  If doing that it is best in my opinion to breed them 12 hours after you first find them standing and then again 12 hours after the first breeding.  However it is tricky because some goats are like cats and will act like their standing all the time, so a lot of people miss these does because they dont get them at the right times.  Its also not entirley economical in most situations because goat semen in general (boers at least) is more expensive than cattle so most of my friends that I do it for would rather use a CIDR and timed AI using one straw, than using the 2 straws of semen.
There are a lot of advancements in breeding goats, a lot of people are now flushing and having pretty good success with it as well.

 

[cornish]

frosy... get off here with your stupid goat questions... as I was once told.. this is a SHOW CATTLE SITE+_+_ and anything is else is UNWANTED.

or so I was told

 

[frostback]

No I dont think so. I made this a whole new thread and labled it what it was, I didnt mix it in and hijack a cattle topic. Until the mods tell me to quit I dont have to. (X)

 

[breyfarm]

I have AIed goats and will be doing more this next breeding season for some friends.  Semen handlin is exactly the same, though almost all goat semen comes in 1/4cc straws instead of 1/2 cc.  I actually find AIing goats to be much easier than cattle.  You do AI through the cervix, you place a speculum into the vagina and you can see the opening of the cervix.  You simply pass the AI rod into the opening and continue forward until you feel it "pop" through the 3 rings of the cervix, then deposit your semen slowly just as you would in a cow.  On some bigger/older does that have kidded more than a few times it can be very difficult to feel the "pops" in the cervix. But in those does a lot of times I end up passing the rod as far as i can and then depositing the semen.  I synchronize does with CIDRS, same situation as with cattle except the times are a little different, I would have to look up my protocal to tell you because I dont remember it off top of my head.  A lot of people like to just keep records of cycles so they know when to watch them and just breed on a natural heat.  If doing that it is best in my opinion to breed them 12 hours after you first find them standing and then again 12 hours after the first breeding.  However it is tricky because some goats are like cats and will act like their standing all the time, so a lot of people miss these does because they dont get them at the right times.  Its also not entirley economical in most situations because goat semen in general (boers at least) is more expensive than cattle so most of my friends that I do it for would rather use a CIDR and timed AI using one straw, than using the 2 straws of semen.
There are a lot of advancements in breeding goats, a lot of people are now flushing and having pretty good success with it as well.

Are lambs the same? you can go through the cervix? Im a cattle guy dont kow much about them just that this guy doing the LAI said you cant go through the cervix and reccomended that to get this laprascopic deeal done, but then again maybe he just wanted more business

 

[CAS823]

I have AIed goats and will be doing more this next breeding season for some friends.  Semen handlin is exactly the same, though almost all goat semen comes in 1/4cc straws instead of 1/2 cc.  I actually find AIing goats to be much easier than cattle.  You do AI through the cervix, you place a speculum into the vagina and you can see the opening of the cervix.  You simply pass the AI rod into the opening and continue forward until you feel it "pop" through the 3 rings of the cervix, then deposit your semen slowly just as you would in a cow.  On some bigger/older does that have kidded more than a few times it can be very difficult to feel the "pops" in the cervix. But in those does a lot of times I end up passing the rod as far as i can and then depositing the semen.  I synchronize does with CIDRS, same situation as with cattle except the times are a little different, I would have to look up my protocal to tell you because I dont remember it off top of my head.  A lot of people like to just keep records of cycles so they know when to watch them and just breed on a natural heat.  If doing that it is best in my opinion to breed them 12 hours after you first find them standing and then again 12 hours after the first breeding.  However it is tricky because some goats are like cats and will act like their standing all the time, so a lot of people miss these does because they dont get them at the right times.  Its also not entirley economical in most situations because goat semen in general (boers at least) is more expensive than cattle so most of my friends that I do it for would rather use a CIDR and timed AI using one straw, than using the 2 straws of semen.
There are a lot of advancements in breeding goats, a lot of people are now flushing and having pretty good success with it as well.

Are lambs the same? you can go through the cervix? Im a cattle guy dont kow much about them just that this guy doing the LAI said you cant go through the cervix and reccomended that to get this laprascopic deeal done, but then again maybe he just wanted more business

I didn't think lambs could be AI'ed?

 

[breyfarm]

I have AIed goats and will be doing more this next breeding season for some friends.  Semen handlin is exactly the same, though almost all goat semen comes in 1/4cc straws instead of 1/2 cc.  I actually find AIing goats to be much easier than cattle.  You do AI through the cervix, you place a speculum into the vagina and you can see the opening of the cervix.  You simply pass the AI rod into the opening and continue forward until you feel it "pop" through the 3 rings of the cervix, then deposit your semen slowly just as you would in a cow.  On some bigger/older does that have kidded more than a few times it can be very difficult to feel the "pops" in the cervix. But in those does a lot of times I end up passing the rod as far as i can and then depositing the semen.  I synchronize does with CIDRS, same situation as with cattle except the times are a little different, I would have to look up my protocal to tell you because I dont remember it off top of my head.  A lot of people like to just keep records of cycles so they know when to watch them and just breed on a natural heat.  If doing that it is best in my opinion to breed them 12 hours after you first find them standing and then again 12 hours after the first breeding.  However it is tricky because some goats are like cats and will act like their standing all the time, so a lot of people miss these does because they dont get them at the right times.  Its also not entirley economical in most situations because goat semen in general (boers at least) is more expensive than cattle so most of my friends that I do it for would rather use a CIDR and timed AI using one straw, than using the 2 straws of semen.
There are a lot of advancements in breeding goats, a lot of people are now flushing and having pretty good success with it as well.

Are lambs the same? you can go through the cervix? Im a cattle guy dont kow much about them just that this guy doing the LAI said you cant go through the cervix and reccomended that to get this laprascopic deeal done, but then again maybe he just wanted more business

I didn't think lambs could be AI'ed?

Yes using laprascopic scopes, its fairly new technology

 

[twistedhshowstock]

We have AIed lambs through the cervix, same procedure as goats, you just use a speculum.  I am no lamb expert but it could be done.  If I am not mistaken the laprascopic method is newer than the speculum procedure.   But I could be wrong.  I know there is a big goat breeder close to here that we have done some work with in the past.  The guy I am AIing for was telling me the other day that that breeder had tried the laprascopic procedure on several occasions because there were people preaching the wonders of it, but this guy is yet to have one settle.  Yet most of the ones he does with a speculum at home by himself have a fairly good conception rate.  And we have had good conception rates with AI using a timed AI protocal and the speculum.
Like I said I am no expert on all species, but the only species I am aware of that you cant go fully through the cervix in when AIing are pigs.

 

[R1Livestock]

With good heat detection/breeding timing and a good GOAT lap AI'er, lots of people are over 80% conception on laproscopic AI.  There is certainly a certain degree more of risk in it, though.  What is a good transcervical stick percentage for you twistedh?  About the same as cattle, all else equal?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

Last couple of years have been right around 70% for me.  I was not trying to state that I had big issues with LAP, I havent been around it that much, just saying that the people around here that have used it have not been happy with it at all.  I dont claim to be the best, nor do I claim to be an expert.  But my opinion from researching it is that LAPs only reason for having anymore accuracy is that you are able to place semen directly into the horn that way.  You still have to have good heat detection and you still have to get the semen in them at the right time.  I am not knocking it, if it is workin for people and they are happy then I wouldnt suggest them stop it.  But for me the added % of conception rate with LAP that I have read about at this point is not enough to justify the extra cost or the added risk involved.  But that is simply my opinion.

 

[R1Livestock]

If there are people out there like you who can hit 70% regularly without LAP, then the 10% difference makes LAP and the risks that come with it look stupid.  Unfortunately, I don't know anyone up here, and I'm sure there are few people in general who can hit that regularly right now.  Congrats to you.  If anyone would be really good at it, it should be people who have been AI'ing in some way shape or form for many years.  Even with $100 per straw on the good stuff, if I could hit 70% I would still AI an awful lot more than I do now.