5PCC
Well-known member
I have been on the Fair Board for our local County Fair for the last 4 years. We are hot and heavy in the planning process for our July fair. We have had a hot debate for at least the last four years, and probably much longer than that regarding our ANNUAL 4-H/FFA SALE. Any comments or advice would be appreciated...
Currently, our annual 4-H sale works this way...
A sale barn close to us sets "the floor price" (per pound) for the market animal (beef, swine, sheep, and goats) early in the day. Right now, floor price is the same regardless of the quality of the animal. A change put into place last year was to set a lower floor price for market swine that were well beyond the desired market weight, because the sale barn took a big hit on those animals.
The person with the winning bid at the sale does not typically take the animal. Instead, the buyer pays the exhibitor the selling price ABOVE THE FLOOR PRICE. The sale barn pays the exhibitor THE VALUE OF THE FLOOR PRICE. The exhibitor is then responsible for getting their animal to the sale barn to be sold at their next sale or sent to the packing house (to hopefully offset the money that they have put into the animal). On occasion, a buyer will take the animal home or to the locker. If that is the case, they obviously pay for the entire animal.
This year, there is a rule that if your market animal weighs above a pre-determined weight, you may SHOW at the fair, but you may not SALE at the annual county fair sale. (I'm not saying that I do or do not agree with this rule. I'm just saying that it is a new rule.) My family only shows beef. Market steers/heifers weighing OVER 1450 pounds on the day of the show weigh-in, will not be able to sale later in the week. Yes, there are a lot of families that are not happy with this rule. I do believe that the person who introduced the rule tied to be generous with the numbers that he/she proposed. The idea was to minimize loss for the sale barn and try to teach the child what is accepted as a marketable animal (because 4-H is about learning by doing). I imagine that next year there will be a similar rule involving weigh minimums. (Keep in mind that these are just facts that I am presenting. I may or may not agree with these rules. I'm looking for tips and pointers to make things better, not criticism on why we do it this way.)
***We have argued for years over the idea of changing the sale to a PREMIUM ONLY SALE where the kids get a little money out of their project, but then retain ownership to do whatever they want with it (like sell it at the local sale barn). Some people I know (in other counties) show market heifers, get a little money at the 4-H sale, and then turn the heifer out in the pasture and breed her, although there is always the risk that feeding the heifer too hard would cause breeding problems.
***We've talked about setting a different floor price on EVERY ANIMAL (based on quality of the animal) instead of having the same floor price for the entire species.
***There are those who think that setting the floor price per HEAD instead of per POUND would be helpful to those buyers who are not typical livestock buyers (the local farm store, or grocery store, for example). I've talked to a buyer who feels that 4-H sales that sell animals PER HEAD (instead of per pound) typically see higher selling animals (based on what he has seen).
***One more thing, our county has a somewhat adversarial relationship between the livestock showers and the non-livestock showers (not necessarily the kids, but some of the parents). The art hall exhibitors don't understand why a steer sells for $3000 when the real market value of the animal is less than half of that. The livestock exhibitors do not understand why a loaf of banana bread sells for $350.
So a few years ago, the Sale Committee started a Clover Shares sell. There are 4 clovers (for the 4 leaf clover 4-H emblem) up for auction during the annual 4-H sale. Each clover typically sells for something like $1500 to $3000. This money is pooled together and then given to the 4-H exhibitors WHO DID NOT SELL SOMETHING at the annual 4-H sale. This is based on some formula of the number of projects you were in, the number of projects you showed something in, etc. But an exhibitor is only eligible for clover shares if they complete the year, meaning they complete their project records. Apparently, there has been a county-wide issue with kids not completing their end-of-the-year project records.
Some like the clover shares sell and some think that it takes away from the money that the buyers would otherwise spend on the livestock and other items that are up for sale. (I guess it probably depends on if you sell something in the sale or not.) Some buyers like the idea of giving money to more than one child. Some people think that a monetary incentive is not necessary to get kids to complete their paperwork. My kids got clover shares the first year that it was started (because the kids were small and they were just showing bucket calves). They got around $175 each.
Our Fair Board representation typically includes: parents of kids who exhibit only Art Hall type items (foods, woodworking, shooting sports, etc). It is great to have their representation, but they may not have a complete grasp of the livestock industry. There are those who make their living as hog farmers or run a cow/calf operation, and show their species only once a year at the County Fair. Obviously, they understand the livestock industry, but not necessarily the show circuit. There is a limited number of families in the county with extensive showing experience. I am fortunate in that I showed a lot when I was younger. My parents owned a Sale Barn for a while when I was younger. My step-father owned a sale barn for many years and was a cattle buyer up until the day he died. My husband and I have about 100 head of cows in our cow/calf operation. My point is...I feel that I have a pretty rounded experience in 4-H, the show circuit, and the livestock industry.
It is difficult to make rules that work for everyone when everyone comes to the table with a different agenda. For example, those who don't show beef/swine/sheep/goats may not completely understand how the rules effect those who do. Those who look at it strictly from a livestock production view do not understand the views of those representing the show circuit. MOSTLY, IT WOULD BE NICE TO PUT THIS TO REST AND NOT HAVE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT ANYMORE. So, any thoughts, advice, suggestions, or telling me how your county does it WOULD BE SO APPRECIATED!
We live in a small county. Typical buyers at the sale are local businessmen (the tractor parts store, the farm supply store, the local bank, the local grocery store), and businesses in surrounding areas (sale barns in other counties, a lumber supply store), our State Representative and Senator, etc.
Thank you for your help!
Currently, our annual 4-H sale works this way...
A sale barn close to us sets "the floor price" (per pound) for the market animal (beef, swine, sheep, and goats) early in the day. Right now, floor price is the same regardless of the quality of the animal. A change put into place last year was to set a lower floor price for market swine that were well beyond the desired market weight, because the sale barn took a big hit on those animals.
The person with the winning bid at the sale does not typically take the animal. Instead, the buyer pays the exhibitor the selling price ABOVE THE FLOOR PRICE. The sale barn pays the exhibitor THE VALUE OF THE FLOOR PRICE. The exhibitor is then responsible for getting their animal to the sale barn to be sold at their next sale or sent to the packing house (to hopefully offset the money that they have put into the animal). On occasion, a buyer will take the animal home or to the locker. If that is the case, they obviously pay for the entire animal.
This year, there is a rule that if your market animal weighs above a pre-determined weight, you may SHOW at the fair, but you may not SALE at the annual county fair sale. (I'm not saying that I do or do not agree with this rule. I'm just saying that it is a new rule.) My family only shows beef. Market steers/heifers weighing OVER 1450 pounds on the day of the show weigh-in, will not be able to sale later in the week. Yes, there are a lot of families that are not happy with this rule. I do believe that the person who introduced the rule tied to be generous with the numbers that he/she proposed. The idea was to minimize loss for the sale barn and try to teach the child what is accepted as a marketable animal (because 4-H is about learning by doing). I imagine that next year there will be a similar rule involving weigh minimums. (Keep in mind that these are just facts that I am presenting. I may or may not agree with these rules. I'm looking for tips and pointers to make things better, not criticism on why we do it this way.)
***We have argued for years over the idea of changing the sale to a PREMIUM ONLY SALE where the kids get a little money out of their project, but then retain ownership to do whatever they want with it (like sell it at the local sale barn). Some people I know (in other counties) show market heifers, get a little money at the 4-H sale, and then turn the heifer out in the pasture and breed her, although there is always the risk that feeding the heifer too hard would cause breeding problems.
***We've talked about setting a different floor price on EVERY ANIMAL (based on quality of the animal) instead of having the same floor price for the entire species.
***There are those who think that setting the floor price per HEAD instead of per POUND would be helpful to those buyers who are not typical livestock buyers (the local farm store, or grocery store, for example). I've talked to a buyer who feels that 4-H sales that sell animals PER HEAD (instead of per pound) typically see higher selling animals (based on what he has seen).
***One more thing, our county has a somewhat adversarial relationship between the livestock showers and the non-livestock showers (not necessarily the kids, but some of the parents). The art hall exhibitors don't understand why a steer sells for $3000 when the real market value of the animal is less than half of that. The livestock exhibitors do not understand why a loaf of banana bread sells for $350.
So a few years ago, the Sale Committee started a Clover Shares sell. There are 4 clovers (for the 4 leaf clover 4-H emblem) up for auction during the annual 4-H sale. Each clover typically sells for something like $1500 to $3000. This money is pooled together and then given to the 4-H exhibitors WHO DID NOT SELL SOMETHING at the annual 4-H sale. This is based on some formula of the number of projects you were in, the number of projects you showed something in, etc. But an exhibitor is only eligible for clover shares if they complete the year, meaning they complete their project records. Apparently, there has been a county-wide issue with kids not completing their end-of-the-year project records.
Some like the clover shares sell and some think that it takes away from the money that the buyers would otherwise spend on the livestock and other items that are up for sale. (I guess it probably depends on if you sell something in the sale or not.) Some buyers like the idea of giving money to more than one child. Some people think that a monetary incentive is not necessary to get kids to complete their paperwork. My kids got clover shares the first year that it was started (because the kids were small and they were just showing bucket calves). They got around $175 each.
Our Fair Board representation typically includes: parents of kids who exhibit only Art Hall type items (foods, woodworking, shooting sports, etc). It is great to have their representation, but they may not have a complete grasp of the livestock industry. There are those who make their living as hog farmers or run a cow/calf operation, and show their species only once a year at the County Fair. Obviously, they understand the livestock industry, but not necessarily the show circuit. There is a limited number of families in the county with extensive showing experience. I am fortunate in that I showed a lot when I was younger. My parents owned a Sale Barn for a while when I was younger. My step-father owned a sale barn for many years and was a cattle buyer up until the day he died. My husband and I have about 100 head of cows in our cow/calf operation. My point is...I feel that I have a pretty rounded experience in 4-H, the show circuit, and the livestock industry.
It is difficult to make rules that work for everyone when everyone comes to the table with a different agenda. For example, those who don't show beef/swine/sheep/goats may not completely understand how the rules effect those who do. Those who look at it strictly from a livestock production view do not understand the views of those representing the show circuit. MOSTLY, IT WOULD BE NICE TO PUT THIS TO REST AND NOT HAVE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT ANYMORE. So, any thoughts, advice, suggestions, or telling me how your county does it WOULD BE SO APPRECIATED!
We live in a small county. Typical buyers at the sale are local businessmen (the tractor parts store, the farm supply store, the local bank, the local grocery store), and businesses in surrounding areas (sale barns in other counties, a lumber supply store), our State Representative and Senator, etc.
Thank you for your help!
