Need help with non-responding cows

[Show Heifer]

A friend of mine ask me about this situation and I had no idea....so I thought I would ask the experts (you guys!!).
He has 50 cows. He AI's them all, but also has a bull.  The last several years he has used cidrs and lut, and on heifers the MGA program. Last year he had a wreck with cidrs for unknown reason (just poor conception). This year he decided to try them again. And all went well except for these 3. He used cidrs and estrumate. With no heat detected he waited 11 days and used just estrumate. Again no heat detected, so he tried estrumate AGAIN!! (He is persistant!!) Again no heat. So now what? These cows are 5-7 years old. Good health. Had no trouble calving and have stuck with cidrs and AI'ing the last 2 years.  So, what should he do now??? Cystic? Just non-responders?
He had 2 last year, that he tried once and when they didn't respond he turned them with a bull, and it took 4 cycles for them to stick. (He knows that due to their calving date this year.) And he doesn't want that to happen again if possible!
I told him that sometimes it just isn't meant to be, but he didn't like that answer!!! (Picky, Picky, Picky!!)

Thanks for your help everyone!!  Haven't had rain for 48 hours so I mowed hay today..they are calling for rain tomorrow...I guess you have to mow it down before you put it up!!!

 

[DL]

You need different friends!

What I would do is use a protocol with time breeding and heat detection - if he sees 'em in heat he breeds 'em if he doesn't he breeds 'em at a specific time. Then he has his good friend preg check them at 30 or 35 days, if they are open his choices are (1) ship (2) repeat protocol (3) call a vet to check 'em (4) turn 'em out with the bull (5) have a neighborhood barbecue! (6) help you put up hay in exchange for all your good advise! If they are pregnant his friend is brilliant ;D

Although there is in theory little difference between Estrumate and Lutalyse people seem to think one is better than the other - he might try Lutalyse with his next go round.....

 

[Cowboy]

A few cows around the country every year, for some odd reason, will fall into the category we call "ANESTROUS". simply meaning they are not-cycling.

This is causes by many things, most of which can be cured easily. Some casues of course are poor body condition, length post partum, cow age etc. By the sound of it above, the cows are pretty much normal, so I would tend to think they might be late calvers to start with. It does take some cows longer to get going, but usually with the Cidr protocol, it will tend to jump start some of these lazy cows.

To add to DL's comment on Lutelyse versus Estrumate, I have found for many years that a cow that fails to respond to Lut will always respond to Estrumate, as it is a Synthetic based product versus all natural for Lutelyse. Some cows will get immune to an all natural product where they won't with a synthetic one.

I know here at home, I have no bull (Well, not a bovine one any way -- but there is LOTS of bull around I have been told by some who know me -- JEEZ) and we breed all the cows on natural heats. Heavily knocking on wood here now -- we calve in 30 days or less every year with one service -- only exception last year was a purchased hfr -- it took 3 times to get bred, and by the way -- she has already been sold this spring with her calf on her - no milk -- calf weighed in at 80 pounds at 60 days old!!!! Soooooo -- home raised from here on is the way it will be!  So far we are 80% completewith breeding after 10 days, going well!

My advice to your friend would be to just turn em out -- they are trying to tell him that they could care less about some frozen semen, they want the real deal !!! hehehehe

See ya -- Terry
;D

 

[red]

(welcome)  Cowboy!!!
We really are glad you joined us!

Red

 

[DL]

Hey Cowboy - boy are we glad to have you and your expertise here! (welcome) (welcome) (welcome)

 

[JbarL]

bingo...... (welcome)

 

[cowz]

Ditto!!!  Glad you are here Cowboy!!    Between you and Telos we will also be in BBQ heaven!  (welcome)

 

[Show Heifer]

Geesh....I forgot to mention that they calves the first two weeks in March......
He mentioned giving them GnRH this weekend and turning them out......someone told him (wasn't me) that they might be cystic???? 
I told him that they were tired of the straw and wanting the "real deal"......I thought he was going to drop he laughed so hard (I did use a bit more descripted words though!!)
Hey Cowboy, glad to see ya here....FINALLY!!!!  ;D
Thanks all!!

 

[Cowboy]

Let's hope that my carousing here won't be a case of "" Open mouth -- insert FOOT"" !!! hehehe

I will try to be cool, calm , and collected -- it will be a real first, but worth the effort hey??

:

Terry  ( Thanks all -- see some of you soon -- really!!! hehehe  (clapping)

 

[red]

Cowboy- anytime you want to come a' carousin head to Ohio!
I'm sure we could find plenty of things to do! Now, no one take that wrong!

Red (clapping)

 

[rtnok]

Hey Red do you think some of us might have our mind in the gutter ????  hahahahaha!

 

[red]

RTNOK- no never! After reading it I thought humm, some might wonder about Red!
Oh course most probably already do!

Red (lol)