New Breeds-boom or bust

[aj]

How much capital would it take to start up? 2,000$. 10,000$? What is the size and scope of the Canadian Shorthorn Assn? What is registration size? They must like to keep it going and not completely join the American Shorthorn assn? What is their budget?

 

[aj]

The maines register 12,000 head a year? The shorties are double that aren't they?

 

[oakview]

Believe it or not I saw a fullblood Chi bull at the Iowa State Fair, and not in the Avenue of Breeds, stalled with the show cattle.  I guess the forerunner of the "Black Hereford" breed could have been the Hays Converter.  You can see some of them in the old AI bull books of the 70's.  To become relevant, many breeds have resorted to the tactic of reinventing themselves into a product their leadership perceives as being in demand, i.e. Black Limousins, Simmental, Maines, and Chis.  Is it really true you don't even have to have 10% Chi blood to qualify for the show?  On the other hand, the so called traditional breeds had to reinvent themselves in the late 60's and 70's to remain relevant, i.e. Angus with just about anything that would blood type, Hereford with Simmental, Shorthorn with Dual Purpose blood and later Maine influence.  This time period would not be the only time of breed change.  I would bet that there are very, very few breeds that even remotely resemble the ideals in mind of original breeders.  Unfortunately, it kind of reminds me of how some today perceive our US Constitution.

 

[aj]

I would think that breeds could change because of economic enviroment......or the contitnent they are used in........the price of corn,fuel, land and price per pound. I'm not sure the belt buckle cattle of the 50's would work unless there is a heck of premium for fat. Did the frame 9 cattle work? I wonder what the milking Shorthorn assn.'s budget is? It can't be very big.

 

[oakview]

Economic environment change would most likely influence an individual breeder's herd before the entire breed.  If the situation persists and enough people get on board, the breed could change, but there will always be breeders that maintain a certain type of herd regardless of outside influences.  I think that's a good thing.  I lived through the belt buckle cattle of the 60's and certainly don't want to revisit that era, but I saw many miniatrue Hereford breeders at our State Fair that think they're the answer.  If it works for them, who cares?  There are still some 9 frame cattle out there.  If their owners can make it work, good for them.  The Milking Shorthorn breed for the most part has transitioned almost exclusively to a 'dairy' breed.  The good, old, true dual purpose cattle from a generation or two ago were good cattle in their day and made a solid contribution to the beef Shorthorns.  There were some that were used that were more of a dairy type, but the real dual purpose cattle had some muscle and doability.  If you look back far enough in pedigrees, there aren't a lot of Shorthorns today that don't trace to some dual purpose blood.  Unlike the Angus and Hereford, the Shorthorns at least made an attempt to document the ancestry of the outside influence.   

 

[Mill Iron A]

In some cases it only takes one breeder.  Look at the Irish Blacks.  There is one guy with a long history on one set of cattle.  To him they were so unique he had the bloodline patented and he is now in complete control.  There are other people who have started to breed them but they paid a heavy price.  Even commercial breeders pay $5000 per bull no matter what they look like and they have to cut every bull calf out of them unless they sign a franchise agreement.  No need for an association here...

 

[garybob]

In some cases it only takes one breeder.  Look at the Irish Blacks.  There is one guy with a long history on one set of cattle.  To him they were so unique he had the bloodline patented and he is now in complete control.  There are other people who have started to breed them but they paid a heavy price.  Even commercial breeders pay $5000 per bull no matter what they look like and they have to cut every bull calf out of them unless they sign a franchise agreement.  No need for an association here...

Aren't the Irish Blacks simply Fullblood Beef Fresians linebred for solid color patterns, without Holstein-colored hides?

GB

 

[twistedhshowstock]

  Is it really true you don't even have to have 10% Chi blood to qualify for the show? 

The Chi's up until now have simply had to have Chi papers to show at National Chi Shows, but it changed this summer.  Any Chi registered after Jan 1, 2012 has to be a minimum percentage to show in a National Chi Show.  I forget what the minimum is but it wasnt super hi, maybe 12%??? But that rule will only definately be followed at National Chi Shows for now.  It will probably take some time for State Fair Shows etc to adopt this rule if they ever do. Mainly because State Fair type shows dont interpret what fullblood is, so if the Chi association gives a heifer Chi papers then most state fairs are going to let her show Chi even if she is not the minimum %.  The same is true for all breeds, if they give an animal papers most state fairs are going to allow them to show as that breed, the exception would be things like MaineTainers, Shorthorn Plus, etc where the difference is noted on the papers.

 

[Mill Iron A]

Irish blacks have their own long story but I believe he started with reg. Angus bred fresians once and then line bred up so yes? Not sure if you look up the website it would say. Im not saying yah or nay I just know he has them patented

 

[aj]

Very Interesting.Hmmmmmmn

 

[aj]

Maybe the the Irish Blacks and Black Herfords have the same bussiness model. I never realized that this model was an option.

 

[HAB]

there is a need to preserve what breeds had and are losing or have lost and I'm not referring to size.
[/quote]

I agree, and would like to think that is what the American Galloway Breeder's Association has done.  Financially it wasn't very easy, but like our cattle, we survived.  Many cattle breeders have tried to get the board to open up the herdbook, but have failed.  The only appendix cattle are in the White Galloway Herdbook, and the Belted Galloway herdbook.  The solid colors (Black, Red, and Dun) have always been maintained in a closed herdbook.  I know our registration numbers are small, but many fullblood Galloways are sold and never papered.  I like to blame this on the breeders being as thrifty as their cattle.  I have heard, "If the buyer doesn't want the papers, why spend the money?", numerous times.

I know there are  breeders in other breeds that have not followed the fads and changed their breed either.

Galloways have started to see an increase in interest in many commercial herds, for this main reason.

HAB

 

[aj]

Cool HAB.  If you had a patent on a breed and had the animals almost identical genetically would you have several options..........as far as selling out or being a beef provider? Wasn't Mcdonalds that had the business model of having every big mac the same as every other big mac?

 

[aj]

If somehow the ideal cow was discovered. I mean she was low bwt, big pelvic measurement, and she was like 500 stars out of 500 stars on some dna test. She had the perfect udder gene. Calves graded prime, yield grade 2. 5 pounds aday gain in the feedlot, at a 4 ounds aday conversion rate(oven dried). And a a bull from the same herd was also deemed the same. Possibly by manipulating genes. Could the owner patent the two head.........clone........embryo transplant the heck out of this mating........start his own breed or organization and have quite a deal going?

 

[KSanburg]

Of course the Polled Hereford is one of the oldest American breeds and I would say it has been fairly successful>. But from what I could find on google about 5 breeders started retaining the polled defect, so I would say that a handful of breeder can start a breed, getting it to be popular is a whole other issue.

 

[aj]

Mtnman great point. I forgot about them. They had a seperate organization than the Horned Herfs till lately. I would think epds would be a problem for a new breed. However I think the Black Herfords have epds. The more I study them the more sense the deal makes. A new breed would have to have new traditions and slogans. One tradition for the Shangus breed could be that the judge and attending directors would have to wear kilts on showday.

 

[HAB]

AJ- Will there be a requirement of bagpipes playing during all Shangus shows?

 

[aj]

Yes there will be. With mandatory shots after every class.

 

[KSanburg]

Yes there will be. With mandatory shots after every class.

Now the show might get interesting, and with a little welsh brawn we could do some side betting, I wonder if we could get it sactioned by the UFC or something like that.  (clapping)

 

[Show Dad]

And lets put out a pot of gold with a leprechaun sitting on top in the winner's circle. And then everybody gets Irish Spring soap to wash their animals. ;D