New WHR for Shorthorns

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Shorthorns4us

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Aug 24, 2010
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I finally was able to read the new rule changes for WHR started in September. 

I would like to get some other members' opinions on the new system. 

Membership is going up to 100.00-- wow
We will still have the annual WHR fees per breeding animal over age 20 mos.

my questions are more for people that are not full WHR members and still want to buy a shorthorn heifer or steer.
How will those transfer?  I guess I don't quite get how 4-H kids are going to fit in to this to get the heifer they just bought in their name. 
I took it to read that they will have to pay the membership fee?
Anyone have any experience with selling to customers that are non-breeders or do not have a full fledged WHR account?
Thanks!!
EF
 

r.n.reed

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I don't like to spend money any more than the next guy but when you put things in perspective 100.00 is not too bad. When I started in the 1970's dues was 10.00 and quickly went to 15.00. You paid to register the calf,paid to transfer a calf and paid a fee for each step of the way for any performance data you turned in.Then there was a promotional assessment fee of 25.00 I believe that came along soon after.
Heifers were very cheap,I paid 500.00 for a bred heifer that was a full sister to that years Illinois State Fair Grand Champion female so the percentage of ASA costs to animal costs were much higher then than they are today.I would think you would only have to be a member to show in ASA sanctioned shows and you are going to spend big money to compete in that arena or have bred a heifer you can sell for big money.
 

REBShorthorns

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Jan 23, 2011
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I just transferred a heifer to my nephew who wasn't a member. We paid for his membership fee so that the calf could be registered in his name. As a junior member he has to be in the WHR program. Where I am not as I was grandfathered in, I have to pay the transfer fee.  But what I was told was that the increase in fees is just adding the shorthorn country for a year into it.  Jake was explaining it to me that the WHR fees are going up but if you pay them early that the fee stays the same as before.  I don't do enough to to warrant me switching to WHR at this time unless they make me
 

r.n.reed

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Making it mandatory to purchase a Shorthorn country subscription is totally wrong the way I see it. They are making us pay so that an individual can profit.Unless the ASA is taking over  the magazine again there is no way to rationalize this.
 

Shorthorns4us

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Aug 24, 2010
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SW Iowa
thanks for the input so far guys! 

I have decided to read the whole article again to be sure I am reading right, but after talking with my husband, we may be looking at a change to a commercial shorthorn herd only.
I love to sell open heifers to kids as projects they can have for several years, but I am a small breeder and don't do the volume of heifer sales or bred animal sales like the bigger guys.  My most up and coming market is locker beef-- you don't need a registration for that-- customers just want really good home grown beef. 
I don't want to make a "knee-jerk" decision about the course of our participation in the ASA-- that is why I want to hear other people's opinions, etc. 

 

Will

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May 7, 2007
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Jay Ok
To be honest I am as discouraged with the breed as I have ever been.  I love the cows and know the good ones are as good as any.  But it seems like as a breed we get nickel and dimed to death at every point.  When we have to sell at the sale barn we take a huge discount, then when we sell cows we take another discount and selling bulls is very difficult.  It seems to me small breeders like myself are disappearing at an alarming rate. The only product we get to sell with any added value is a junior project.  If we make it more difficult on those juniors we may run them off as well and then we have nothing to offer.
 
J

JTM

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r.n.reed said:
Making it mandatory to purchase a Shorthorn country subscription is totally wrong the way I see it. They are making us pay so that an individual can profit.Unless the ASA is taking over  the magazine again there is no way to rationalize this.
Gary, I'm hoping they have a contract signed with Shorthorn Country that allows them more influence on articles that will be more industry relative.
Will said:
To be honest I am as discouraged with the breed as I have ever been.  I love the cows and know the good ones are as good as any.  But it seems like as a breed we get nickel and dimed to death at every point.  When we have to sell at the sale barn we take a huge discount, then when we sell cows we take another discount and selling bulls is very difficult.  It seems to me small breeders like myself are disappearing at an alarming rate. The only product we get to sell with any added value is a junior project.  If we make it more difficult on those juniors we may run them off as well and then we have nothing to offer.
Will, I get your frustration, I really do. I've been there. I think you basically just summed up a major issue for so many people. These young people get into Shorthorns because of the hype and appeal that the junior projects give and think: Wow, I can breed them like that and get winners, sell them for good money. Then come to find out that the very thing that seems so appealing and fun is the very thing that is causing all of the unfortunate side affects like discounts at the sale barn and bull calves that look like heifers but sire 100+ bw calves at an alarming rate. All I can say is there is another way... Shorthorns4us seems to be leaning that way. To each their own, but when you breed for certain things you get certain things.
 

r.n.reed

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JTM,For me content is not the issue,making it mandatory to buy an individuals product to be eligible for membership is wrong.I would call that a Chicago style business model.
 

OH Breeder

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Shortorn4Us
We are small too. But I sell to 4-H kids. Steers and heifers. They all want them registered. I do a dozen calves a year and to pay for that fee individually for registration alone is worth the $100. I try to record as much as possible weaning weights yearling weights even register calves we loose at birth so I can contribute to the EPD's on my females and bull. I do agree, I do not think a privately owned magazine should not be part of the membership fee unless there is going to be more editorial control by association itself. I have my own personal feelings about that you can PM me if you like. If a kid needs to be a member, I will pay their fee if that what it takes to get a junior on board.
 

Okotoks

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I am guessing the reason the breed magazine in the US is included in the membership is for the same reasons that our magazine is included in our Canadian membership. For years the Canadian Shorthorn Association had its own magazine and for most years it lost the association a lot of money. Then for several years we had no publication at all. When the Shorthorn Report started up privately it was great. Recently it was also included in our memberships. The Association in return gets editorial content and can reach members with news and information without separate mailings. It is a win win.  Most breeders I know look forward to receiving their Shorthorn magazine and I know some juniors that impatiently wait for it.
In order to be a breeder of purebred cattle you need to belong to a registry association. In actual fact the costs of memberships and registrations are extremely reasonable. I dug out some of the registrations from my Grandfather back in the early 1950’s and the cost of registering was $2 to $3 and transfers were $3. Using an inflation calculator that is 20.02 and 30.02 in today’s dollars. You didn’t get online pedigrees back in the 50’s and you certainly didn’t get EPD info. I’d say the value for the dollar is actually greater today! I also found my membership cost for 1980 was $45.00 and in today’s dollars that is $127.10.
There are many reasons to be a purebred breeder, the membership and registration costs are probably one of the better values considering the other investment costs a breeder makes. Check out some of the other breed association's costs, you will find yours are in the ballpark. The CSA's costs are actually lower than most of the other breeds!
 

r.n.reed

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Let me first say that I am not against the Shorthorn Country and what they do.In response to your post Dan I guess I would start by referencing the editorial by our executive secretary in this months Country.Then take into account that the news and info in SC is at least 40-45 days old.I received this months Country Oct.16th,I know there is more than one advertiser who took out full color full page ads who would be happy to hear that.If there are 2000 members who will be required to spend 24.00 a year you are talking 48,000.00.That would buy a lot of postage to send out newsletters to members who do not have access to or have chosen to stay off the grid.
 

justintime

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I was going to stay out of this conversation, but I am the editor of the Canadian Shorthorn Report, and I see a few reasons for the magazine being tied to the membership. First of all, let me say that I think every breed needs a breed magazine. Some would argue that the importance of the breed magazine is not as important today as it was just a few years ago, when the opportunity to promote and advertise on the internet with breeder websites, facebook pages and forums like this one ( and many others). I maintain that all these forms of promotion are important and I am constantly reminded that none of us do enough promotion. It seems like every time I think I am doing enough promotion I find out we are certainly not. I wrote a couple editorials on this topic in recent months. Three years ago, prior to our annual bull sale, we decided to increase our advertising and we advertised in several small town local papers and did a flyer drop in every mail box within 100 miles of our sale. We also plced sale posters in every town we could get to.  Our sale that year was hit with a bad blizzard, and we ended up with some bulls that did not sell. A few days after our sale, I received a phone call from a guy and he asked me if we had any Shorthorn bulls to sell. I told him that I did, and he showed up later that day and he purchased 7 bulls. He lived 35 miles from where I sale was held and he said he had never heard of our sale. I asked him how he found out about me raising Shorthorns, and he said a friend of his had gave him my phone number.  I understand it is not possible to reach every person, but a guy wanting 7 bulls would have been nice to have in the seats on sale day. As a side note, when he was writing his cheque for the 7 bulls, I commented that most people who are buying bulls or females in quantity usually ask if I would take a lower price because of the numbers involved in the sale. He said he did not understand why anyone would do this. He said that he grassed 2800 yearlings every summer and he always received a premium when he sold because he could provide complete loads of cattle. He said that I was doing the same thing in that he was able to buy all his bulls at one place and on one trip.
Another example, happened this spring when I was delivering bulls. Twice on the same day, I heard bull buyers say that they had come to our sale because they really didn't know anywhere to buy Shorthorn bulls. I could think of at least 5 Shorthorn breeders within 50 miles of both these people who had Shorthorn bulls for sale.
I believe that a breed magazine should be in every home that raises purebred cattle of that particular breed. In our case in Canada, we had people on our national board who did not subscribe to the national magazine, which I found to be totally wrong. Looking after the subscriptions is a job that takes a considerable amount of time each month and when it is tied to the membership, it is another job that does not exist anymore. Postage is a huge expense. We like our magazine to get to the subscribers in a timely manner, so we mail it first class. Here in Canada there are always issues with our postal service. I live 90 miles from where our magazine is mailed, and I have it mailed to my home address every issue. With almost every issue, subscribers in Australia and Britain get their magazine before my issue gets to me ( 90 miles away).
Finally, I would say that if anyone is not pleased with a breed magazine, the best way to change that is to start to advertise more yourself. I do not know of a breed magazine who is selective on who can advertise in it. If you feel you have a product some others would appreciate, get your camera out or get someone to take some good pictures and promote them. You might be surprised in what you find out. I will also say that advertising can be useful for years into the future. A few years ago, I sold a bull to a guy who saw an ad we did in a 1980 breed magazine. He had received some old cattle magazines from a neighbor who was moving to town and he saw our ad in one of them. Just last year, I received a phone call from Texas and he asked if we would have any Maine X Shorthorn calves for sale. I asked him that we had not had any for many years, and he told me he had saw a very small ad we had placed in Shorthorn World ( which was the breed magazine prior to Shorthorn Country) in 1976. In very small print at the bottom of the ad it said " Maine X Shorthorn steers and heifers for sale".
I think anyone who lasts any time raising purebred cattle, has to be very good at production, but very few are real good at the marketing end of the business and both are very important in a successful operation.
 

r.n.reed

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Justintime,I agree with everything you said about the importance of a breed magazine,some of the problems faced by these magazines, and the value of advertising.The one thing I would take exception with is your idea that a breeder should try to change the image of a magazine by spending money on advertising. I believe it is the duty of the business man or magazine in this case to have a product people want to buy or advertise in.If you have a limited budget you put your money where you get the most bang for the buck.Most people don't have enough of an advertising budget to spend it on changing someone Else's business model.
I do not think that you addressed the two issues I have raised which are 1.Is it proper for an association to make it's membership support a stand alone for profit business and 2.Is spending all that money on SC subscriptions the most cost effective and timely way to disburse ASA info to its membership.
 

Shorthorns4us

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SW Iowa
Again- thanks for the opinions.

I am going to just say it-- I quit on the magazine after Patrick Wall left.  His articles were '"real world" application.  I know that he still contributes every now and again, but when I would get the magazine in the box each month-- all it was going towards was an ad magazine-- I don't need to see so many ads.  I would much rather see more articles about the beef industry, MARC trials, Bull Trials, Feedlot trials-- I did appreciate that article each year about the great state feedout.  I would the like the magazine to have more of a commercial cattleman appeal.
Just my opinion on the magazine.
Keep the opinions coming!
EF 
 

Dale

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A breed association needs to do two things well--register animals and stay financially sound.  Anything else the ASA does for me is bonus.  I do not expect the ASA to sell my cattle for me or to breed a certain type of Shorthorn (that's the breeder's choice and responsibility--not that of the association).  Our herd has supported (at least a business card ad) the Shorthorn Country and before that, the Shorthorn World for probably 60 years.  I enjoy receiving the Country and am pleased that our grandchildren receive it along with their WHR memberships.

Dad served as a board member of ASA.  I learned to appreciate ASA secretaries and secretary/CEO and other staff then and now.  We have very competent people serving us at ASA!  Every time I have called with questions they have been professional and courteous.   
 

Shorthorns4us

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I agree with Dale that the staff is very nice.  When I have called with questions, I usually get answers pretty fast and they are nice.

I agree that you can't expect the association to sell your cattle for you either.  I guess it just boils down to the 2 points Dale has-- they are there to register animals and stay in the black.
So each breeder must decide if the fees and paperwork to register animals works in their business program.
EF
 

Medium Rare

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Shorthorns4us said:
thanks for the input so far guys! 

I have decided to read the whole article again to be sure I am reading right, but after talking with my husband, we may be looking at a change to a commercial shorthorn herd only.
I love to sell open heifers to kids as projects they can have for several years, but I am a small breeder and don't do the volume of heifer sales or bred animal sales like the bigger guys.  My most up and coming market is locker beef-- you don't need a registration for that-- customers just want really good home grown beef. 
I don't want to make a "knee-jerk" decision about the course of our participation in the ASA-- that is why I want to hear other people's opinions, etc.

You could always just go buy a Red Angus bull.

You won't have to worry about registration costs. Your freezer beef business will benefit from the heterosis. You'll get a pretty nice commercially based magazine, for free, that might even have an article or two written by a familiar name/face. Your barn calves will mysteriously quit being docked like a longhorn when people blindly throw an "Angus" label on your calves. Go ahead and follow their twitter and facebook pages, you'll soon realize everything you've wanted is out there... they just don't come in White or Roan.
 

Okotoks

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Medium Rare said:
Shorthorns4us said:
thanks for the input so far guys! 

I have decided to read the whole article again to be sure I am reading right, but after talking with my husband, we may be looking at a change to a commercial shorthorn herd only.
I love to sell open heifers to kids as projects they can have for several years, but I am a small breeder and don't do the volume of heifer sales or bred animal sales like the bigger guys.  My most up and coming market is locker beef-- you don't need a registration for that-- customers just want really good home grown beef. 
I don't want to make a "knee-jerk" decision about the course of our participation in the ASA-- that is why I want to hear other people's opinions, etc.

You could always just go buy a Red Angus bull.

You won't have to worry about registration costs. Your freezer beef business will benefit from the heterosis. You'll get a pretty nice commercially based magazine, for free, that might even have an article or two written by a familiar name/face. Your barn calves will mysteriously quit being docked like a longhorn when people blindly throw an "Angus" label on your calves. Go ahead and follow their twitter and facebook pages, you'll soon realize everything you've wanted is out there... they just don't come in White or Roan.
If you decide to go the Red Angus route you really need to visit the herd and see exactly what the dispositions are like. As in any breed all animals are not created equal and there are some Red Angus with serious disposition problems. This morning a young girl was attacked in a field by a Red Angus cow and is now in hospital. This is a cow that calved in the spring so zero excuses for her. This girl works around hundreds of head of cattle. I have had my share of Red Angus experiences and the disposition of some lines is questionable at best.
 

Mill Iron A

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Jul 12, 2011
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I think that is good advice Okotoks and I'm not denying that there are red angus lines (probably more breeder lines if you want to be specific) that are not good about selecting for disposition. Having said that, I raise reg. red angus and absolutely love the disposition. I am a stickler as I have three young boys 5 and under and I will not tolerate anything other than puppy dog gentle. As easy as it is to say this breed is good at this and that breed is good at something else it really comes down to breeders within the breed. I'm out west so I'm sure I'm not close to any of you but if you are looking for docile good red angus I have a good relationship with quite a few of the breeders in Montana and some in KS, NE. I would love to point you in the right direction of what you would be looking for.
 
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