not sure on shorthorn cattle

[librarian]

Well...seems like this is the base
I am new to shorthorn cattle, but ive recently purchased four bred SuperFlag heifers from Wally Klose in Twin Bridges Montana. I believe the heifers are bred to a grandson of Clifford King
Daughters of Mandalong Super Flag from 1971?
It would help to know out of what cows? Do you have reg#'s?

A grandson of Clipper King of USA?
It would help to know out of what? Do you have reg#'s? TH status?

If your not sure these animals will have good performance, that's understandable
If you're trying to sell them, that's understandable.

They should be useful to someone who has modern cattle bred up from Super Flag who wants to reinject a shot of the original imported genetics and then carry on with the 21st century relatives.

Otherwise, I'd see what okotoks has for a bull that descends from Super Flag with acceptable growth and carcass traits, the capitalize on BW, although many have noted this does not necessarily indicate calving ease.

For someone like me, who doesn't push growth they might be great cows. But JPJ makes a type that works well for my purposes too. Except for his defect issues. My point is, if you're not looking to restore the moderate phenotypes that have plenty of volume, why use old genetics?


My father gave me two pieces of advice that I use every day.
1. Never use your hand for a hammer
2. Work with what you've got.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mark T., what's the name or regnum of the red bull?  His sons are impressive.

  The Red bull is PLCC GOLD STANDARD-out of the 20 20 cow pictured-the RWM bull is ALTA CEDAR REAL STEEL-no relation-the roan in the snow is also Canadian-but dont know his name O0

 

[Coach]

Mark -

The roan bull pictured in the snow  -  Looks like the kind of bull I would LOVE to use.  Can you give me a bull name and/or registration number???  I am enjoying reading all the comments . . . BUT . . . I really just want to find out who that bull is!  And can he still be used??

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mark -

The roan bull pictured in the snow  -  Looks like the kind of bull I would LOVE to use.  Can you give me a bull name and/or registration number???  I am enjoying reading all the comments . . . BUT . . . I really just want to find out who that bull is!  And can he still be used??/// You need to call his owner Zane Martin-406 328 4517 or 406 853 8702 Promised Land Cattle-Fishtail Montana-WHEN YOU FIND OUT WHO HE IS ETC-ID LIKE TO KNOW TOO

 

[Promiseland]

I was asked by a good Canadian friend if I had been on steerplanet recently because my cattle were being discussed.  Apologize for my tardiness!  Our operation here is geared toward raising cattle that are no fuss, range raised / tested for calving, fertility, performance and longevity! True we do show them here and there but our focus is not necessarily to raise show winners. We BELIEVE that you can produce PRACTICAL cattle that WORK for you (not the opposite) and have EYEAPPEAL!

Thank you Mark for posting pictures and mentioning my cattle. The red bull is a home raised bull sired by K-Kim Gold Count 22P and dam is a 20/20 Vision dtr in pictures. He is a Shorthorn Plus bull.  We breed him to approx. 40-65 cows a yr ( Shorthorn and majority Red Angus or Black Angus females) and market calves as commercial bulls and have standing orders for females as replacements.  His calves out wean ANY bull I have used naturally or AI by 100-150 lbs. NO CREEP, just grass and mothers milk. 

The roan bull on snow in pictures is another Plus bull by Gold Standard out of a commercial non papered Shorthorn cow which I sold to a PB Angus breeder in eastern KS to use on Angus females for F1 cross cows. 

The Real Steel left us way to early from a very unfortunate happening. His daughters are out of this world. Talk about cows!  If you like cows that do what cows are suppose to do, then they are it. IMO.  Do they ever perform and wean a monster of a calf. First dtrs calved this yr and calved unassisted, milked well and bred back in a timely manner.  All on native grass. Cows graze range ( dryland bunch grass and mountain pasture) for as long as possible until ( feed is short or snow too deep to snow graze- over a foot deep) before they are fed a strict 2% of body weight in native grass hay and straw for remained of winter. They range calve unless conditions are too severe.  Run like most commercial cattle in Montana. NO FUSS NO MUSS.

We currently use a few other Shorthorn sires naturally and AI to mainly Canadian cattle and some US cattle with do ability and practical application.

Will try to get some pictures of females working here (working clothes).  As well as  current donor cows .

Thank You Kindly! Zane Martin

First picture is of a Real Steel 2 yr old heifer.

Second picture is a late March calf by Alta Cedar Real Steel out of a JSF Tophand cow. Pictured in mid September.

Third is a Alta Cedar Real Steel  sired heifer calf  pictured in Sept.

Fourth is the red bull pictured earlier ( Gold Standard) shown as a 2 yr old after running with 60 hd of cows on range pasture, in one of the driest years on record here. Only on feed for 45 days for that show. Which I would also like to say his first calves that yr ave ww was 643. Had 5.86 inches of precip and most all came Oct and Nov that yr. Only feed was dead yr old grass. A testament to their resilience.

Fifth picture is a heifer calf sired by Alta Cedar Real Steel out of dam to Gold Standard bull.

 

[Promiseland]

More pictures of cattle working at Promiseland Cattle Co and in partnership with Alta Cedar Shorthorns . Canada.

First  FHS Raggedy Ann-  ET and natural calves by Real Steel, JSF Broker

Second  Alta Cedar Silver Gem 59x - ET and natural calves by Real Steel, Saskvalley Primo, JSF Broker

Third  Long Cool Woman ( the backbone to majority of Shorthorn cows here- pictured as a 13 yr old). ET, natural  calves  by Saskvalley Primo, Alta Cedar Lad, Alta Cedar Stampede, Paintearth Rama, Studers Pretender.

Fourth  Hallmark Missie Ruth - A cow that visitors call " the best PRACTICAL Trump dtrs" they have seen.  Dam is the prolific SS Missie Ruth by the old cowmaker  AF Dividends Impact.    ET and natural calves by Saskvalley Primo, K-Kim Gold Count, PLCC Gold Standard, Alta Cedar Stampede 2x, Alta Cedar Storm, Studers Pretender.

 

[JTM]

3 eagles,
There are Shorthorn cattle out there that thrive in a range environment. The kind we have aren't growth oriented like you have described with the 800 lb. ww but I invite you to check out my website to see what we do. I believe Shorthorns are an awesome ingredient in a commercial operation.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Id SURE like to see any pics of  calves on Gold Standard in your travels-If he was a hiefer deal Ive got one that by pedigree etc Id sure use him on-Those are some goodlooking cattle- and unless JTM gets into linebreeding-that bull would be very usefull as a next step to continue the obvious commercial appeal, compete with the Angus etc growth curves, and not sacrifice BWS.-and he is probably related somewhere to the Dover cattle -whence alot of the Capt Obvious etc cattle came from-along with very good Stangle breeding behind 20 20 Vision;on his dam.Gold Count is also one of the better pedigrees for commercially oriented cattle with eye appeal and grow also-think hes out of an Elbee Bessie : WELL 3 EAGLES ANY COMMENTS ON THE PROMISED LAND CATTLE IN YOUR BACKYARD? STEVIE WONDER COULD SEE HOW GOOD THESE ARE.O0 O0

 

[vc]

It never seems to amaze me how one could choose to get into a breed, then turn around and tear down that breed, it seems to happen weekly. If I was to choose to breed pure bred cattle I would find the type of cattle in that breed that I liked and build from those cattle, not buy cattle that were not the type I wanted and try and breed them up to that type, take you way to long to get where you wanted to be.

I have seen some fine examples of the right kind of shorthorn posted on this site, I think you would have been better off finding the cows that met your criteria to start your venture off, then just cows from that breed to start. If you want commercial type cows, show cattle websites are probably not going to have many your type of cows, at least not the type that will make it through your winters, produce and feed a calf to the weaning weight you are looking for, some will but not all.

The only picture I have ever seen of JPJ was a mature picture, he has his faults but he was also one of the few consistent calving ease Shorthorns bulls when one was really needed. I will say every heifer calf I have seen out of him seemed to be a little early maturing for me, but they were thick and consistent in their type.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

It never seems to amaze me how one could choose to get into a breed, then turn around and tear down that breed, it seems to happen weekly. If I was to choose to breed pure bred cattle I would find the type of cattle in that breed that I liked and build from those cattle, not buy cattle that were not the type I wanted and try and breed them up to that type, take you way to long to get where you wanted to be.

I have seen some fine examples of the right kind of shorthorn posted on this site, I think you would have been better off finding the cows that met your criteria to start your venture off, then just cows from that breed to start. If you want commercial type cows, show cattle websites are probably not going to have many your type of cows, at least not the type that will make it through your winters, produce and feed a calf to the weaning weight you are looking for, some will but not all.

The only picture I have ever seen of JPJ was a mature picture, he has his faults but he was also one of the few consistent calving ease Shorthorns bulls when one was really needed. I will say every heifer calf I have seen out of him seemed to be a little early maturing for me, but they were thick and consistent in their type./// I saw Proud Jazzes full bro and dam at Fareers a few years ago and felt lucky to see them-and I think that if you are going to sell cattle to the commercial market-they need to be geared to that area which is a very good point-If the "purists" shorthorn cattle arent thick enough, big enough, or are hardoing -it doesnt matter how many times you kid yourself about how they are "better" or more "authentic'-if the commercial people dont want them.AND THEY WILL NOT EVEN LOOK-if they dont resemble the cattle they are running, plus add something to the mix:THATS AFTER THE STIGMAS THAT END WITH CALVING PROBLEMS-and there are many-some percieved-some VERY evident. If you want to sell calves even  for local  kids to show-they AT LEAST have to resemble a stout beef animal: sorry, but Ive been to too many fairs etc where these poor skiiny bedraglled Shorthorns showed up and were an embarrassment for everyone. O0

 

[vc]

I'm not knocking Jazz at all, just trying to figure out what the original poster was saying about fluffed up, and no mature pictures of the bull. The thing is as I think about it all those heifers were on creep, if they were just on pasture and mom, they would probably have been just right as far as condition.
jazz may have been an ideal bull for the grass fed game ( that is not meant as a knock)

 

[librarian]

Even Capiche works nice for grass fed. The early maturity is an asset for grass finishing.
It's a real shame about the DS because the heifers are so pretty you want to keep them and then you have to invest in the test.
Someone who had an OCC based Angus grass fed cow herd could get a great product using JPJ as a terminal cross. I wish folks had more imagination.

 

[3 Eagles shorthorns]

Them are some great looking cattle Zane cant know them one bit. As far as Jake proud Jazz goes I dont know much or pretend to know much about the breed thats why I am on here the comments I made were only from one was told to me from the person that has seen him in person. I called wally and the paperwork is on the way 1 heifer is out a a son of clipperking usa, 1 heifer is out of a son of alta cedar first blood, and 1 heifer is out of a son of leader 9th and were are working on picking out a few more hefiers and breeing them to 4 point major. I am really impressed with the look of the alta cedar cattle and will probably use a couple of there bulls a.i. I plan to breed everything i have to a shorthorn bull probably a.i 40 head and have the bulls cover the others in hopes of retaining most of my heifer calves.

 

[JTM]

Even Capiche works nice for grass fed. The early maturity is an asset for grass finishing.
It's a real shame about the DS because the heifers are so pretty you want to keep them and then you have to invest in the test.
Someone who had an OCC based Angus grass fed cow herd could get a great product using JPJ as a terminal cross. I wish folks had more imagination.

A lot of our Black commercial cows are OCC based cows. We are crossing them with our Shorthorn bulls. It is working very well. 70% choice and 70% YG 1's & 2's  on our last year's steers.