oil spill photo essay
- Thread starter knabe
- Start date
Help Support Steer Planet:
simtal
Well-known member
and once again, the media destroys another industry...
Exactly how are these photos destroying anything? They are real. Can't accuse the media of making a moutain out of a molehill on this one. This is a real bad deal.
But.........Part of the problem now - as awful as it sounds - is the locals in my opinion (haven't we heard this before down there) screaming for help, screaming at the Govt for not doing enough, and screaming at BP. Most of south LA either works directly for oil companies or businesses that support them. These small fisherman shown in photos are normally living below or just above poverty levels anyway. They are making way more money working for BP now than they ever did fishing. But they are actually having to work hard so a few of them are taking the easy route and suing.
I was actually commending the govt for a while on this one - Obama was trying to stay out of it to the extent possible and let the oil companies work. But the locals and LA politicians have screamed at him so loud he now has to play tough guy. Nobody wants this thing plugged as bad as BP. Nobody is going to figure out how to stop it but the oil drilling experts.
There is no industry going to be ruined - we may slow down deep drilling for a while, but it will resume. We have to have the oil, people have to have the jobs. It's either that or we buy more oil from overseas.
The problem with this whole deal was a bonus system for one guy who had the power to over rule everyone else that knew what they were doing. Other than that, I don't see where BP has done anything wrong since the spill happened.
Good news (probably) - there was a huge spill (not this big, but big) in the Gulf back in the 70s in Mexico. You can find articles on it that indicate that mother nature took care of herself and practically all of the oil was gone in a couple of years. The good thing about crude oil is that it is really just plant material - and bacteria and other "bugs" eat it. A lot of the lighter parts will evaporate. It'll take a while, but the warm weather and water of the gulf will help take of things much faster than a cold climate like where the Valdez happened.
That's why the Corps was reluctant to let people down there start dredging to build up dams to keep oil out. You could do more long term damage with those activities than with the oil. But again, public perception got in the way and they had to grant approval.
The fish and shrimp and vegetation will come back. And we'll keep on drilling for oil with a little closer oversight - which is probably needed.
We mortals can't comprehend just how much money a company like BP makes. I figured they'd go bankrupt, but read an article where their $20B fund they set up represents actual profit for about a year. BP has hardly any debt. My gut instinct - now would be a good time to buy stock in them. Apparently they aren't going anywhere.
But.........Part of the problem now - as awful as it sounds - is the locals in my opinion (haven't we heard this before down there) screaming for help, screaming at the Govt for not doing enough, and screaming at BP. Most of south LA either works directly for oil companies or businesses that support them. These small fisherman shown in photos are normally living below or just above poverty levels anyway. They are making way more money working for BP now than they ever did fishing. But they are actually having to work hard so a few of them are taking the easy route and suing.
I was actually commending the govt for a while on this one - Obama was trying to stay out of it to the extent possible and let the oil companies work. But the locals and LA politicians have screamed at him so loud he now has to play tough guy. Nobody wants this thing plugged as bad as BP. Nobody is going to figure out how to stop it but the oil drilling experts.
There is no industry going to be ruined - we may slow down deep drilling for a while, but it will resume. We have to have the oil, people have to have the jobs. It's either that or we buy more oil from overseas.
The problem with this whole deal was a bonus system for one guy who had the power to over rule everyone else that knew what they were doing. Other than that, I don't see where BP has done anything wrong since the spill happened.
Good news (probably) - there was a huge spill (not this big, but big) in the Gulf back in the 70s in Mexico. You can find articles on it that indicate that mother nature took care of herself and practically all of the oil was gone in a couple of years. The good thing about crude oil is that it is really just plant material - and bacteria and other "bugs" eat it. A lot of the lighter parts will evaporate. It'll take a while, but the warm weather and water of the gulf will help take of things much faster than a cold climate like where the Valdez happened.
That's why the Corps was reluctant to let people down there start dredging to build up dams to keep oil out. You could do more long term damage with those activities than with the oil. But again, public perception got in the way and they had to grant approval.
The fish and shrimp and vegetation will come back. And we'll keep on drilling for oil with a little closer oversight - which is probably needed.
We mortals can't comprehend just how much money a company like BP makes. I figured they'd go bankrupt, but read an article where their $20B fund they set up represents actual profit for about a year. BP has hardly any debt. My gut instinct - now would be a good time to buy stock in them. Apparently they aren't going anywhere.
As I understand it, from friends in the industry, part of the problem is no one wants the platforms close to shore. As a result, the companies have obviously over estimated their abilities to work in these great depths. I just hope the relief wells work very soon.
chambero said:
You're kidding right? Comparing this to the likes of Katrina is, well, idiotic. Sure you've got a couple complainers but NO WHERE near the level of what was seen for Katrina. A large majority of fisherman/charter boats/those affected are working with BP laying boom, skimming, burning, etc etc and Im sure they're being compensated well for their time and efforts. But these are good, hardworking people just like you and I who I assure you want nothing more then to return to their normal lives and get back to work.
Also incase anyone hasnt seen a judge in New Orleans suspended Obama's 6 month deep water drilling ban that he put in place. They will appeal of course but a 6 month ban is really not needed.
Show Heifer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Messages
- 2,221
Did anyone else notice how the leak got "larger" as time went by? I also heard that many of the fisherman that were trained to help bp are not being hired nor are allowed to help due to some "red tape".
A true diaster that probably should have been and could have been prevented. But I guess bp would rather save the well, rather than save the environment.
A true diaster that probably should have been and could have been prevented. But I guess bp would rather save the well, rather than save the environment.
justintime
Well-known member
Yes, this is a true disaster and a terrible environmental tragedy. Like with any issue like this, this has been an extremely hard thing to stop from spewing oil, and they are literally developing the science as they go from day to day.As time goes by, and the disaster gets worse, the finger pointing begins and gets worse by the day.BP has done a bunch of things wrong, but they have probably done a few things right as well. I am sure it is in their best interest to get this stopped as quickly as they can.
For all the conspiracy theorists out there, I will throw you a bone. Could it be that Toyota or Tiger Woods bombed this drilling rig? Seems to me that they have disappeared from the News ( at least for all the negative reasons they were constantly in the spotlight before). They had a lot to gain from a disaster like this. Sorry, I couldn't restrain myself.
For all the conspiracy theorists out there, I will throw you a bone. Could it be that Toyota or Tiger Woods bombed this drilling rig? Seems to me that they have disappeared from the News ( at least for all the negative reasons they were constantly in the spotlight before). They had a lot to gain from a disaster like this. Sorry, I couldn't restrain myself.
knabe
Well-known member
chambero said:
same here. you get karma for that.
JbarL
Well-known member
the fishermen and oil rigs have worked side by side for years.....bp would have tried to sue the fishing industry if a new fishing technique they were using had caused this spill.....bet on that....
we got the same generation of engineers and "yes man" corporate structures running the same way now at our nuclear facilites as well with just as much possibility of enviromental damage at stake everyday....capitalistic formats dont work with enviromentaly sensitive arenas....same could be said for all public works utilities....i live on the florida west coast and live with both a nuclear plant with a small "crack" that has been under repair for way past the due date.....and now oil, 2 months away from the nature coast.......all i see is profit driven monopolies, ran by people who are to afraid to say "anything" that would jepordize the own personal job security....from the operators...to the coporate "advisors"......jbarl
we got the same generation of engineers and "yes man" corporate structures running the same way now at our nuclear facilites as well with just as much possibility of enviromental damage at stake everyday....capitalistic formats dont work with enviromentaly sensitive arenas....same could be said for all public works utilities....i live on the florida west coast and live with both a nuclear plant with a small "crack" that has been under repair for way past the due date.....and now oil, 2 months away from the nature coast.......all i see is profit driven monopolies, ran by people who are to afraid to say "anything" that would jepordize the own personal job security....from the operators...to the coporate "advisors"......jbarl
SH - the red tape started when some of the fisherman BP started hiring started suing over health concerns. They run these folks through a pretty extensive safety training program before ever letting them start work on the booms and skimmers. Basically OSHA and other regulatory agencies have had to step in and prevent them from using inadequately trained personnel - again because of the pressure being put on the agencies by the public.
There's plenty of time for law suits later - right now everyone needs to shutup and work to catch as much of the oil as they can before it hits land. It's debatable how much good you can really do trying to clean oil off of land and vegetation once it gets there in a wetland/shallow marine environment.
The potential loss of income to fisherman is likely to hit once all of the furor dies down in a couple of years. Right now there is more money flowing into the economy down there than at any other time. Tourism industry is a different deal.
JbarL - professional engineers work under a similar code of ethics that doctors. I don't completely disagree with a lot of your political posts - but you'd honestly be surprised how wrong your thoughts are on the engineering profession if you had an opportunity to learn how the engineering business works. I'm in the engineering/environmental business, working for one of the oldest firms in Texas. There is never a shortage of jobs for professional engineers - hence there isn't much fear on the part of engineers of losing a job. Plus, we are personally liable if something we design fails (we pay lots of money for professional liability insurance that is essentially the same kind of insurance doctors carry). The fact that these kinds of incidents involving any aspect of the energy industry are so rare relative to the amount of work going on is testimony to that fact. This just happens to be an awful one - caused by someone that wasn't an engineer (at least to my knowledge). Sadly, the technical professionals actually running the operations on the rig paid for one mans greed with their lives. Don't forget that part of this.
You're issue on a nuclear plant is probably not being reported correctly or it would be shut down until fixed. There is no tighter regulated industry. People think of Three Mile Island as a large nuclear accident - it wasn't - the safety aspects of that plant worked. You might as well get ready - there are a bunch more nuclear plants coming to this country.
I really do feel very bad for everyone involved in this disaster - but there is a right way to react to a disaster (its called pulling together) and some parts of the country are better at it than others. I do like the stories of a lot of the communities down there banding together to actually take action (stringing their own booms, etc). Lots of good people trying to do the right thing all along the gulf coast - but its frustrating to watch the few throwing major monkey wrenches into things.
There's plenty of time for law suits later - right now everyone needs to shutup and work to catch as much of the oil as they can before it hits land. It's debatable how much good you can really do trying to clean oil off of land and vegetation once it gets there in a wetland/shallow marine environment.
The potential loss of income to fisherman is likely to hit once all of the furor dies down in a couple of years. Right now there is more money flowing into the economy down there than at any other time. Tourism industry is a different deal.
JbarL - professional engineers work under a similar code of ethics that doctors. I don't completely disagree with a lot of your political posts - but you'd honestly be surprised how wrong your thoughts are on the engineering profession if you had an opportunity to learn how the engineering business works. I'm in the engineering/environmental business, working for one of the oldest firms in Texas. There is never a shortage of jobs for professional engineers - hence there isn't much fear on the part of engineers of losing a job. Plus, we are personally liable if something we design fails (we pay lots of money for professional liability insurance that is essentially the same kind of insurance doctors carry). The fact that these kinds of incidents involving any aspect of the energy industry are so rare relative to the amount of work going on is testimony to that fact. This just happens to be an awful one - caused by someone that wasn't an engineer (at least to my knowledge). Sadly, the technical professionals actually running the operations on the rig paid for one mans greed with their lives. Don't forget that part of this.
You're issue on a nuclear plant is probably not being reported correctly or it would be shut down until fixed. There is no tighter regulated industry. People think of Three Mile Island as a large nuclear accident - it wasn't - the safety aspects of that plant worked. You might as well get ready - there are a bunch more nuclear plants coming to this country.
I really do feel very bad for everyone involved in this disaster - but there is a right way to react to a disaster (its called pulling together) and some parts of the country are better at it than others. I do like the stories of a lot of the communities down there banding together to actually take action (stringing their own booms, etc). Lots of good people trying to do the right thing all along the gulf coast - but its frustrating to watch the few throwing major monkey wrenches into things.
JbarL
Well-known member
chambro...i wasn't speaking of the ones with a consince and professional integrity....i know there are a lot of excellent engineers and craftsman to boot, who take there responsibilities and ethics seriously.....but as the minerals management group and professional engineers has proven.........a few bad apples....made a big ecological mess....
the "generation" i was referring to is the ones that we rent replaced in the 90's....and are hanging on to high paying jobs where 10 yrs ago it was quite popular to have to play the "global competion" game where every industry cut work forces to be "globally competitive" for the "future".at any cost.....well now is the future for the gulf or mexico after years of engineering work??
nothing personal intended for sure chambro....but i am however glad to have a professional who may be able to substantiate the total melt down of integrity and libelous professionalism that brought us to this point......this was the result of a few underachievers, at several professional levels, keeping there mouths shut and there jobs in tact........left in a position that jeopardizes the eco system as we know it....
some how this has become acceptable in the age of "power for profit" corporate nonsense... ....hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries were paid to professional engineers and positions of regulation to make sure this didnt happen...but it did....jbarl
the "generation" i was referring to is the ones that we rent replaced in the 90's....and are hanging on to high paying jobs where 10 yrs ago it was quite popular to have to play the "global competion" game where every industry cut work forces to be "globally competitive" for the "future".at any cost.....well now is the future for the gulf or mexico after years of engineering work??
nothing personal intended for sure chambro....but i am however glad to have a professional who may be able to substantiate the total melt down of integrity and libelous professionalism that brought us to this point......this was the result of a few underachievers, at several professional levels, keeping there mouths shut and there jobs in tact........left in a position that jeopardizes the eco system as we know it....
some how this has become acceptable in the age of "power for profit" corporate nonsense... ....hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries were paid to professional engineers and positions of regulation to make sure this didnt happen...but it did....jbarl
knabe
Well-known member
JbarL said:
you are not describing capitalism. if it were capitalism, new companies with better strategies and techniques would displace those with inferior ones. it's pretty clear that capitalism WAS NOT allowed to work as the system pretty much mirrors the soviet union where no one speaks up. capitalism allows and encourages those to speak up and spurs the replacement of inferior systems faster than what is occurring now which is essentially socialism. people don't recognize what we have now is socialism so they wouldn't even recognize capitalism if it hit them in the face with a raise.
JbarL
Well-known member
maybe capitalism HAS NEVER worked in the public utilities arena, and now is positive proof of it.... ??? jbarl
knabe
Well-known member
JbarL said:
not true. it wasn't capitalism. you fail to understand the definition of capitalism.
capitalism allows the quick replacement of failed ideas. capitalism is NOT cronyism.
cronyism and hiding things are the highest ideals of socialism.
JbarL
Well-known member
You're issue on a nuclear plant is probably not being reported correctly or it would be shut down until fixed. There is no tighter regulated industry. People think of Three Mile Island as a large nuclear accident - it wasn't - the safety aspects of that plant worked. You might as well get ready - there are a bunch more nuclear plants coming to this country.
[/quote]
chambero.....the plant is divided in two parts.....they have a fossil fuel side and the nuke side....the attempt to bring the nuke side back on after the crack was discovered , failed with more "problems" to address that " popped up"...and the plant remains on fossil fuel (coal) for now....as far as i know....the employees would know more than a citizen.....
im all for new nuke plants....im also for replacing " older" ones as well, and taking a step back and looking at all of our eco/mankind altering "businesses" we all rely on everyday.....and take for granted....
the local paper here seems to more represent the power company ( largest employer in citrus county), than "cover " it.... they covered the crack and the origional restart date, and the delay....but they are the most safely regulated industry in the county as you say and people here just come to take it for granted....just like the fishermen used to feel safe sharing the same natural resources with bp......we just cant afford to rely on to many more " bad business decisions" like this to our eco system.....we seem to have made it a policy to run our industious accomplishmets of the past ( levies/bridges/industiral capabilites/clean water and air/ the power grid/deep water drilling ramifications) to such an antiquated state....old nuke plants have to an area to "double check"as well........jbarl
Show Heifer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Messages
- 2,221
Thanks for the info Chambero. I had heard some were getting sick. But know you hear very little about it. Was the illnesses tied to the oil directly? Did bp pay them off to be quiet? Or was their any illness at all?
I have also heard that bp is trying to limit photos of "dead habitat and wildlife". And that their employees will try and scare off people with cameras. Is that true?
I do find it amazing that the story being told is highly related to the channel you watch on TV!
I have also heard that bp is trying to limit photos of "dead habitat and wildlife". And that their employees will try and scare off people with cameras. Is that true?
I do find it amazing that the story being told is highly related to the channel you watch on TV!
I'm sure being out on the water catching oil is a little rough odor wise, but it shouldn't be causing true sickness.
There's no way BP could be limiting photos of anything. They aren't charge of anything other than their own rigs and their other equipment. The whole region is crawing with biologists from Fish and wildlife agencies and private contractors working for various government entitities that are dealing with wildlife. Public can take photos of what they want and certainly dead critters are being documented.
There's no way BP could be limiting photos of anything. They aren't charge of anything other than their own rigs and their other equipment. The whole region is crawing with biologists from Fish and wildlife agencies and private contractors working for various government entitities that are dealing with wildlife. Public can take photos of what they want and certainly dead critters are being documented.
Latest posts
-
-
Info on a 7T's bull names Greg Timesharing
- Latest: wannabcowguy
-
ISO of Millbrook Ransom G9 semen code
- Latest: wannabcowguy
