If it wasn't so sad, it would be amusing when people complain about Maines crossed with Shorthorns. At least we were above board and the Maines were actually identified on the pedigree. I have no idea where you could find a real "purebred" Angus today. If you were around in the 70's, you would have perhaps noticed the infusion of Maine, Chi, Holstein, and whatever else might blood type Angus. Have all those genetics been eliminated? Judging from the number of genetic defects the Angus people are dealing with, I would bet not. I have related the true story on here before about the half Maine-half Angus heifer that won her class at the Iowa State Fair in, I believe, 1976 when they had the Nat'l junior heifer show there. She blood typed purebred Angus. Upon delivery, I listened to the owner of the heifer ask the prominent buyer if they wanted the Angus or Maine pedigree. They wanted both. The buyer also had a pretty powerful show bull in their show string that later was found to carry a "hoof deformity gene." I shall leave him nameless. Do these same buyers inquire about the percentage of tainted blood in the Angus bull they buy? Didn't the Herefords have some trouble in the late 80's-early 90's with a diluter gene that, surprise, surprise, came from Simmentals? I suppose all these people asking about the background of your Shorthorn pedigrees are most happy to use BLACK Simmentals, Maines, Limmys, Chis, or RED Charolais with who knows what in their background. When the Maines were included into the ASA herdbook, the information we had was that they were ABOVE 75% Shorthorn. After two generations with purebreds, the resulting 15/16th calves were considered purebreds. What's the actual purebred percentage of a black Simmental female? The lack of knowledge in the cattle industry never ceases to amaze me.
Old Maine Bulls
- Thread starter 764wdchev
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764wdchev
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I was young when the ASA opened up the books, and let Maines in. IMO I think it helped to improve the Shorthorn herd. I think it is very important to note that the ASA had a policy, and this helped to keep the records straight- or as straight as people wanted to be. Other than some Natives, and documented Fullblood herds, I would suggest you dig deep into your pedigrees. I think most people would be surprised as to what they find. I think this applies to all breeds.
We each have an ideal animal we are breeding for, how you do that is up to you- including how you document them. I learned a long time ago I was a bad liar, its easier to keep the truth straight.
We each have an ideal animal we are breeding for, how you do that is up to you- including how you document them. I learned a long time ago I was a bad liar, its easier to keep the truth straight.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
oakview said:
I don't think it's a purity issue so much as they are trying to avoid the excessive birthweights historically associated with full blood maine Anjou cattle. Disastrous experiences with the Trump bred cattle have likely accentuated this disdain held for the 'Maine' influenced.
Chev is correct. Most people would be surprised what is truly in the background of their animals. Unfortunately, too many don't know and even more don't care. My thanks for repeating what I have said numerous times. We're all free to raise what we want how we want to do it. I was around when the continental breeds hit the U.S. Excessive birth weights nearly killed all of them. In high school ag class, when the Charolais were really the only non-British breed here, we were taught they had a lot to offer if you can only get the calves out alive. We used some early Simmentals and Maines and those calves were much larger than what we had before. You have to remember, though, 950 pound cows were very common at that time. I have used the Trump influence for over 20 years and had no disastrous experiences. I'm not doubting there have been some out there, but I have not had them. I believe how they are handled (fitted for show, perhaps?) has great influence. The only nearly disastrous experiences I've had have been with a Rider 844 son (negative BEPD) and the Sevilles, Dreamboats, etc. of the late 80's.
Medium Rare
Well-known member
It seems as though the breed was going to get the infusion of Maine blood one way or the other. I'd much rather see it on the paper instead of hidden under a "pure" shorthorn's name. I've sent Yukon semen along as the back up bull on a pair of IVF flushes now but haven't had the chance to use him yet. Hope to get him plugged into the right pedigree eventually to see if it works like I think it might.
Oakview, did my emails make it through to you a while back? Would still be interested in getting together on some of that semen one of these days.
Oakview, did my emails make it through to you a while back? Would still be interested in getting together on some of that semen one of these days.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
Medium Rare said:
Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR
Well-known member
As curiosity matter....possible no answer would come.
As ASA opened the herdbook for aliens on 70's....why some breeders used Maine and other breeds on their cattle and not informed the ASA for insert it on pedigrees, making it CLEAR! Enticer is the unique example I know that is Maine infused but with clean pedigree.
As ASA opened the herdbook for aliens on 70's....why some breeders used Maine and other breeds on their cattle and not informed the ASA for insert it on pedigrees, making it CLEAR! Enticer is the unique example I know that is Maine infused but with clean pedigree.
The Maines didn't legally come into the ASA herd book until the late 80's. The duals were accepted legally in the early 70's. (after they were "excused" in the late 40's). Prior to their legal acceptance, people used duals and Maines for the same reason they do anything under the table. To get an edge. The shortcut to bigger cattle in the late 60's was to use something different, something not available to just everybody. Let's put a little Milking Shorthorn in there.
No one will ever know. The shortcut to putting some muscle and bone back in them later on was to put a little Maine in there. Capone looks like a good bull. Who will know? It was done in every breed, quite often I might add. Hard to believe what people have done, and still do today, for a trophy.
No one will ever know. The shortcut to putting some muscle and bone back in them later on was to put a little Maine in there. Capone looks like a good bull. Who will know? It was done in every breed, quite often I might add. Hard to believe what people have done, and still do today, for a trophy.
Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR
Well-known member
oakview said:
Thanks!
Because of where he was born here is a link to his canadian epd'sJoe Boy said:
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5A5826272F25&9=5E525A27
xxcc
Well-known member
How such a high accuracy with no progeny?
What would it take to get EPDs on him from where he has been used?
There is another horned Fullblood Maine bull being promoted, that all account indicate should be in a back seat to Yukon. Any reasoning why Yukon's semen is not widely promoted or marketed? i.e. Sales strategy of progeny, ownership agreement, or some other reason? :-\
What would it take to get EPDs on him from where he has been used?
There is another horned Fullblood Maine bull being promoted, that all account indicate should be in a back seat to Yukon. Any reasoning why Yukon's semen is not widely promoted or marketed? i.e. Sales strategy of progeny, ownership agreement, or some other reason? :-\
doc-sun said:
knabe
Well-known member
764wdchev said:
any pictures or more thoughts?
764wdchev
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Still haven't found any pictures, but still have some semen and willing to work with someone.
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