I've been thinking about trying to jump into the clubby steer market, but before I dive in I want to start by building a solid Maine/Angus base. I have an Angus cow that will be getting bred for her 3rd calf and her first calf daughter coming into production this year. In an attempt to think outside of the box I purchased some semen on Chill Factor, Habanero, and Carney Man. Wanted to see other thoughts/opinions on this. Looking to maybe produce a show heifer or 2 but really just wanting to make some great club calf mommas for down the road.
Old School Bulls
- Thread starter wjmcattle
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shortyjock89
Well-known member
I guess it could work, but I'm far more impressed with the best clubby type bulls of today vs the 90's.
If you really want to use an old school bull that can still make viable show cattle as well as steer mommas, you need to use Dr. Who and maybe Who Made Who.
If you really want to use an old school bull that can still make viable show cattle as well as steer mommas, you need to use Dr. Who and maybe Who Made Who.
My thoughts are by using something a lil older that it will be further removed from today's genetics. I love unstoppable but monopoly and sounds would be close genetically. My thought was that by using older bulls the daughters might click better with the next great supersire (the monopoly son that replaces him like he did heatwave)
shortyjock89
Well-known member
I can understand that, but I just think show cattle now are so much better from a structure and body standpoint than they were when those bulls were the big thing.
I think you'd have better luck using a breed sire with some power than digging into the vault. There's a fine line between being proven and past it.
Chill Factor was a good bull when we used him, and is line bred to Cunia in a black/white package. He may work to an extent, but monkey mouth, small feet, and bad pasterns are a possibility.
Habanero was immensely popular for a few years, but I would be worried that his daughters could be short on body and again, a little sketchy footed. Maines from this Era were notorious for bad pasterns and it took bulls like Money Man and Ali to really exonerate and legitimize them as a female producing breed again (in my mind).
Carney Man is one of those bulls that wasn't appreciated properly until he was gone. He could work, but he may just be too dated in his make up to really get it done for you.
All of these bulls have merit, even today. But with such a small sample size, I'd go with a really good Simmental or Charolais bull and then follow that with a monopoly son. It's a proven recipe for a reason. It works time and time again, with many applications.
I think you'd have better luck using a breed sire with some power than digging into the vault. There's a fine line between being proven and past it.
Chill Factor was a good bull when we used him, and is line bred to Cunia in a black/white package. He may work to an extent, but monkey mouth, small feet, and bad pasterns are a possibility.
Habanero was immensely popular for a few years, but I would be worried that his daughters could be short on body and again, a little sketchy footed. Maines from this Era were notorious for bad pasterns and it took bulls like Money Man and Ali to really exonerate and legitimize them as a female producing breed again (in my mind).
Carney Man is one of those bulls that wasn't appreciated properly until he was gone. He could work, but he may just be too dated in his make up to really get it done for you.
All of these bulls have merit, even today. But with such a small sample size, I'd go with a really good Simmental or Charolais bull and then follow that with a monopoly son. It's a proven recipe for a reason. It works time and time again, with many applications.
I say go for it. There are still some promotion bulls out of those cows popping up. Unstoppable is out of a Habanero cow. I agree with the Dr. Who too though. I used Kadabra on some cows last year and was so happy to get heifers. I will keep them and breed them clubby.
Kinda my thought. I figured if I could make some calves that offer genetics similar to some older donors it might be interesting. I like doctor who as well and thought he might be interesting on the resulting daughters since he is calving ease and to stack some maternal traits. My main goal for these calves would be to make the pieces to make champions. Trying to put a runner in scoring position rather than swinging for the fences.
afhm
Well-known member
Those older bulls will still work and are a breath of fresh air (genetics) to the current pedigrees. Chill Factor, Cigar, Strictly Business, Carney Man, Irish Whiskey sons andOhlde influence would be a good idea as well. Some 1/2 simmentals and 1/2 charolais females would be good property to have as well.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
Wanna see 4-500 of the best clubby cattle in the US? In one sale right now? Go to Black Hereford Ranch sale-Christy Collins Marketing:it was just this last Saturday (I think)-NOBODY Else can produce quality LIKE THAT and do it EVERY YEAR-and Alot of those cattle are out of cows with recent oldschool breeding-they are listed as dams and granddams with damxsires-just connect the dots. Its hard to breed clubby or any quality cattle in 10% of that volume-HE"S THE BEST-O0 O0
Bradenh
Well-known member
What do you know about déjà vu Olsen? I flushed a horny (cunia x full sib to ildeno) - (maternal grand sire of cub) cow (17 years old) to him last week she only gave me 2 being so old but am curious what déjà can do
Cow is old school bred but Tiny tiny and Huge footed
Cow is old school bred but Tiny tiny and Huge footed
Completely agree with you on the Kris Black sale. The "Cream of the Crop" is so correct. I'm pretty sure the sale is the 13th though. He is kinda where I got the idea for using some more old school genetics. I figured that since I don't have the ability to handle range cattle in central Illinois or the cash to afford some of my favorites I figured buying the semen and raising my own would be more cost effective.
I'd also like to point to the fact that frictions have become hot this winter including a top seller at Riemann's and a new son in Lautner Farms lineup called "Blast from the Past". Some other people must be thinking along the same lines.
knabe
Well-known member
Show stopper 95 said:
What do you mean a full-sib to ildeno?
Bradenh
Well-known member
Sorry that's poorly worded- horny is a cunia x big g
Big g was mid continents fill sib to ildeno- the sugar Ray before sugar Ray
Big g was mid continents fill sib to ildeno- the sugar Ray before sugar Ray
knabe
Well-known member
Bradenh
Well-known member
Okay, perhaps I was misinformed on that cow I don't have any papers on her or anything and never doubted it it to look it up,
That's so far beyond my time I don't know anything on it ether way
Edit after researching horny is a Kodiak son out of a big g cow. Not a cunia (Kodiak is a cunia son)
So she's a cunia grand daughter and an ildeno great grand daughter
That's so far beyond my time I don't know anything on it ether way
Edit after researching horny is a Kodiak son out of a big g cow. Not a cunia (Kodiak is a cunia son)
So she's a cunia grand daughter and an ildeno great grand daughter
