One of our junior herd sires

[oakview]

I will amend my opening statement to best instead of most, then.  My opinion is that the good breeders turn over their cow herd with better replacements they have produced from their good cow herd bred to an improving bull. 

 

[RyanChandler]

I will amend my opening statement to best instead of most, then.  My opinion is that the good breeders turn over their cow herd with better replacements they have produced from their good cow herd bred to an improving bull. 

And then the final test would then be breeding those better replacement heifers they have produced to the best or best couple yearling bulls they've produced. 

 

[aj]

I always hear that your next heifer should be better than the older cows......so you should turn cows over. This drives me crazy. Why not set parameters and breed a certain line of cattle. Just maintain a line of cattle. On the show ring......what defines best? Big bone? Hair and hair and more hair. Long necks? Short necks. The latest trend? Square over hip? Acertain height hip? In the show ring......is the best the best? No. Its the latest trendiest cattle. The goal changes every year. 10 years later you are back to a spot. How can the best be the best if the target is constantly moving? Seems like to me one program might be culling outliers. Start an index system of important economic traits. Trim up the edges......cull off problems and don't sell them as 4-h problems. I don't think that "the best" is ever clearly defined. If a breed decided to excel in say two traits while maintaining acceptable levels on other traits.......what would happen. Say the breed decided they were going to be a maternal breed with superior marbling ability. It would take 10 years to get to that point by culling and identifying select sires to push you into that position. If you get there.....why change or try and get better?

 

[aj]

Its just a matter of definition. If you chase what the judge says.....you will never get there.jmo

 

[RyanChandler]

I think I agree with ya AJ. Breeders need to specialize. The jack of all trades is the master of none.  At the same time, 8" eyes aren't acceptable on finished steers- even out of maternally specialized breeds.

 

[oakview]

Yogi Berra would love how this topic has evolved.  We see the same things, we just look at them differently.

I hope my next main cow herd is better than the current one.  I don't want to turn my cow herd over every 3 years, I just want the next "group" to be ready to go and in their prime when the previous generation is done.  The replacement process is gradual for me, a few at a time.  As far as the term "best", each breeder should have an ideal in mind.  If you think you're there, you're not.  There's always room for improvement.

I agree that we need to specialize.  I tried to get that across ealier.  However, I don't mean as a total breed.  That would be impossible, unless we got a government grant.  Every breeder specializes according to what they like, what they can market, their environment, there are more factors than we could possiby list.  Breed-wide specialization would lead to the elimination of too many genetics that will eventually be necessary.  Where would we be if everyone would have been forced to raise the belt buckle, horned cattle of the 60's?  Leader 21 would never have happened.  Where would we be if everyone was forced to raise the Irish cattle of the 70's?  How about the dual purpose?  Or maybe the Maine influence of the 80s?  Heaven forbid that we all have to raise what those crazy Canadiens do.  (Grant, I still like your bull!)  We need a diversified gene pool, probably even bigger than we have.  Each and every breed of every kind of livestock needs just as a diverse group of breeders as they do animals.

 

[aj]

There you go again.....8 inch rib eye......worthless measurement......we need to think in terms of inches per 100 WEIGHT!  Maternal is less antaganistic to imf than carcass extremes. Thats why you set your index for adequate rea's with high imf and maternal qualities.

 

[RyanChandler]

I agree its worthless w/o any reference. I said finished steers though. Ok, to me, adequate is a minimum of 1 sq in/hundred.

 

[vc]

(pop)
It's like a car crash , I just keep looking. I had to go back and reread the original post so i could remember what started it all.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

(pop)
It's like a car crash , I just keep looking. I had to go back and reread the original post so i could remember what started it all.

Why is it a car crash?

I think 75% of shorthorn breeders already breed the same thing. IMO one must breed what they like. What works in the area to turn a profit. Each breeder should produce their own type and kind. Then commercial guys can fine tune their herds and know what they are getting because it's been line bred and is consistent.

 

[vc]

Not the subject, the discusion itself, somebody seems to get it back on track and then off it goes again on a tangent. Over all I learn allot from these discussions or at least they make me thank.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

That's what I love most about Steerplanet. It makes me think about things and how I can do better. I think anybody can learn a lot if they have a open mind. I've really appreciated input from folks like oakview or chambero. Take a guy like oakview. He has found what works and sticks with it. Cows fit his eyes and he is still in business. I think every breeder needs to make their OWN cattle. Profit will decide if they work. Wouldn't it be cool to have a good set of cows they only lack carcass quality. So you go to a "seed stock" breeder who has a proven track record for excellent carcass and still good cattle. They have been linebred and they offer quality in number. They have eliminated suprises so it doesn't bite you. Wouldn't it be cool if every farm you stopped at had something different that fit the bigger picture? Like secretariat never made one like him. The best bred to the best don't always make the best. Sometimes the inbred pud out crossed on unrelated cows makes the best. Go figure.

 

[justintime]

I thought I would post a picture of our Free Spirit 6Y bull from Canadian Western Agribition this fall. He was Senior Champion Bull and weighed 2340 lbs. I am very pleased with how he popped back after running with 55 cows for a few weeks this summer.  Some people say we don't need bulls this size in the beef business. Yet I  had people stop by the stall at the show and tell me he was not tall enough. He is actually pretty moderate framed and he gets his weight from his thickness and overall length. He was born from a smaller framed 3 year old recip and was unassisted with a 90 lb BW. He weighed 1903 as a yearling at Agribition and as a two year old who was used this summer, weighs 2340 lbs. To me, he is what the beef business is about. He is very easy fleshing and he gets most of this from his mother who is pictured in this thread as well. We will have semen in the US and Britain very soon and it is available in Canada now.

I have also posted a picture of HC Marksman 25Z who was Reserve Junior Champion Bull at the 2013 NAILE. He is also a son of HC Timeline 17T ET and his dam is a Major Leroy daughter. The Moore family, Jerseyville, IL purchased Marksman out of our Sun Country Bull Sale last spring. I would like to congratulate them and thank them for their promotion of this excellent bull.

 

[Doc]

He weighed 1,903 at a year old?

 

[justintime]

He weighed 1,903 at a year old?

He weighed 1903 last November at Agribition and was shown in the yearling bull class. He was actually 20 months old at that time.

 

[oakview]

I thought Moore's bull looked outstanding in Louisville.  Real hard to fault.  One of the better natural bulls I saw there.

 

[Doc]

He weighed 1,903 at a year old?

He weighed 1903 last November at Agribition and was shown in the yearling bull class. He was actually 20 months old at that time.

I feel better. As a lot of people on here know, I don't have a problem with bigger cattle but 1,903 at 12 months is too big even for me.

 

[RyanChandler]

I thought Moore's bull looked outstanding in Louisville.  Real hard to fault.  One of the better natural bulls I saw there.

What do you mean, natural?

 

[justintime]

I thought Moore's bull looked outstanding in Louisville.  Real hard to fault.  One of the better natural bulls I saw there.

Lonny, I appreciate your comments. Before our sale last spring, it was a last minute decision to put him in the sale. He combined so many things I have been trying to produce that I wondered if I should keep him, but in the end decided to offer him.  I have had some pretty docile cattle but this guy was without any doubt the quietest bull I have had. Every morning when I walked through the pen, he would come over to me for his morning scratch. He did this right from the day he was weaned and I had never touched him prior to that.  After Moore's got him, Hugh Moore called me and said that I had never mentioned that Marksman was halter broke. I told him that he had never had a rope touch him while he was here. At first I don't think he believed me as he said he must have been halter broke as the boys had haltered him, led him across the yard and put a ring in his nose and then led him back , and he never once pulled on the halter. I told Hugh that he did pretty good for his first experience with a halter then.

 

[justintime]

He weighed 1,903 at a year old?

He weighed 1903 last November at Agribition and was shown in the yearling bull class. He was actually 20 months old at that time.

Haha... sometimes I know what I want to say, but my fingers don't write it so anyone else will know what I am meaning. I have to agree that a 1903 lb yearling weight might be over the edge of common sense.

I feel better. As a lot of people on here know, I don't have a problem with bigger cattle but 1,903 at 12 months is too big even for me.