Optimal recip research

[Gargan]

Was wondering if anyone has seen any studies of certain breeds or crosses that have tendencies to turn embryo transfers into long term pregnancies? Are any breeds reproductive tracts more conducive than others to accepting foreign embryos? I know that body conditioning, proper mineral programs and post pardom timing have affects on carrying a pregnancy. Just curious, thanks in advance. 

 

[Bradenh]

For us the higher %brahman they go it's less likely to get hot responses from synch drugs and their tracts are messy curvy and all different sizes

 

[hntwhitetail]

Ive had best luck with the older fall calvers holding them back for spring calves and putting embryos in.

 

[DSC]

For us the higher %brahman they go it's less likely to get hot responses from synch drugs and their tracts are messy curvy and all different sizes

That is interesting. I know quite a few guys around here that swear by using cattle with a little more ear as recips. They claim they get a higher percentage of pregnancies. Interesting to hear different opinions.

 

[Bradenh]

Don't get me wrong I believe in some ear all of our recips would "class american" just for us once they get over 50% they seem to not respond to drugs as well

 

[Medium Rare]

Don't get me wrong I believe in some ear all of our recips would "class american" just for us once they get over 50% they seem to not respond to drugs as well

Are you using the protocols designed for the Bos Indicus influenced cattle on your higher percentage females?

 

[Medium Rare]

While it's not breed related, I was hoping someone would bring up putting the cidr back in after implant.

Is there any actual research out there on this?

 

[HAFarm]

While it's not breed related, I was hoping someone would bring up putting the cidr back in after implant.

Is there any actual research out there on this?

Would like to hear more about this.  If any one has any info.

 

[Double R Cattle]

While it's not breed related, I was hoping someone would bring up putting the cidr back in after implant.

Is there any actual research out there on this?

As in using them a 2nd time?  If so, there has been research done by at least two universities with conflicting findings.  While I was at Purdue, an Animal Science grad student did his thesis on this topic.  His findings were that it is effective to reuse them.  Illinois has studied them same topic and came up with the conclusion that there was a significant loss in serum progesterone concentrations, as well as a greater chance to lose one.  My personal thought is why risk it?  At $8 a pop, I know it may get expensive up front, but you know they are clean, every protocol about re using them states they should be cleaned with just plain, cold water, as to not lose any drugs.  This should increase the chance of infections, and the such.  Also, if there is a chance of drug concentrations decreasing significantly, you have done all the work for nothing.  I guess, since I have an 8-5 job, I like to do my breeding on the weekends.  What I do is sync my recips up a week ahead of AI cows, and have my vet come out and put embryos in the recips and AI the better cows all in one swoop.  I guess it just depends on how you manage your herd, but after you consider the Lut, GNRH, and your time, I guess an extra $8 isn't that bad.  Also, the greater potential of an ET/AI calf versus a clean-up bull calf, I guess that make the $8 seem like a very small cost in the grand scheme of things. 

 

[Medium Rare]

No, I'm talking about syncing with a cidr, putting the embryo in as usual, then putting the cidr back into the cow.

 

[Duncraggan]

No, I'm talking about syncing with a cidr, putting the embryo in as usual, then putting the cidr back into the cow.

Comments should be interesting!

 

[CAB]

  I've never heard of anyone doing this, but am hoping that some people chime in. With the new laws coming into place it'll be interesting seeing how much chatter if any will take place. It's getting pretty weird just getting Folltropin!!!

 

[mbigelow]

It seems to work well! Placing the cidr back in after putting the embryo in it helps keep those that stuck bred and allows you a second chance at the ones that did not take the first time.  Express ranch has used this protocol in the past.  They average 55% conception on the first round and 50% on the second round for a total of 75% recipe take with embryos.  Gets you more et calves rather than waiting a year. It does require more labor

 

[Medium Rare]

It seems to work well! Placing the cidr back in after putting the embryo in it helps keep those that stuck bred and allows you a second chance at the ones that did not take the first time.  Express ranch has used this protocol in the past.  They average 55% conception on the first round and 50% on the second round for a total of 75% recipe take with embryos.  Gets you more et calves rather than waiting a year. It does require more labor

Thanks for sharing some actual numbers!

Would you happen to know if they stuck to the regular number of days on the second round or if they left them in a little longer?

 

[Bradenh]

Don't get me wrong I believe in some ear all of our recips would "class american" just for us once they get over 50% they seem to not respond to drugs as well

Are you using the protocols designed for the Bos Indicus influenced cattle on your higher percentage females?

No never knew there was a different procedure to be honest

Mutually interested about the cidr in a freshly impregnated female

 

[doreck show cattle]

Currently a student attending TAMU and this is what I've been wanting to do my research on, get an arsenal of different recips and implant them with "identical" clone embryos, let them calve out, get them on the same feeding program and just see what happens, i know there will be too many variables to control however im sure some kind of generalization could be made from the results.

 

[Gargan]

Currently a student attending TAMU and this is what I've been wanting to do my research on, get an arsenal of different recips and implant them with "identical" clone embryos, let them calve out, get them on the same feeding program and just see what happens, i know there will be too many variables to control however im sure some kind of generalization could be made from the results.

I think it would be an interesting project. Would be informative to know if a few different breeds ( eared cattle included) were more susceptible to taking the embryo ( all same grade by the same embryologist) than others, if given the same synch protocol. Keep us informed on ur results if you follow through with it.

 

[Bradenh]

Include natural heats in your study we seem to get better conception that way but others say there should not be a difference as long as there is a CL (when it comes to embryo work)

If natural heats do work better (which I feel like they do) an explanation on "why" would be a very useful peice

 

[hntwhitetail]

If you are putting the cidr back in, how long are you going to keep it in for?  Will the cow show a heat cycle in 14  days if it did not take?  Just wondering how they are getting 75% of the recips to take an embryo by the 2nd time.  Thanks for any input.

 

[Simmgal]

I'm also curious about putting the same CIDR back in the cow after AI service. I haven't been brave enough to try it after I've talked to a few different people about it and have been getting conflicting responses.