Pink Eye

[DL]

Hey DL, I wasn't mad or anything, just saying how it is in the real world. I geuss I will continue to speed on the interstate & use puffer on pinkeye. ;D

Doc – I am well aware of the real world – I certainly know that drugs approved for use in cattle are used extra label every day without following ELDU rules. Just about every synch protocol is extra label. I doubt than anyone uses penicillin at the label dose, so that is extra label and anytime you use Nuflor for naval ill that is extra label (and of course there are billions of examples) – and although this is technically “against the law” no one seems to care that much unless there are residues detected – these are drugs approved for use in cattle used in off label fashion.

BUT there are a very short list of drugs PROHIBITED by FDA from use in cattle – 11 drugs or classes that cannot be used in cattle (PERIOD) - PROHIBITED is the operative word here – and one of those is your nitrofurazone puffer.

So what you are promoting, what you are doing, what you seem to think is OK is in the same class with clenbuterol (do you know people who have gone to prison for using clenbuterol? I do) and chloramphenicol (do you know people who have died from fatal aplastic anemia from small amounts of chloramphenicol? I do) -

So in my mind it comes down to this – what you are doing and advocating is irresponsible and bad for the industry and could be a field day for animal rights groups. If we can’t police ourselves someone will police us. As food producers we should be responsible to follow the law and NOT use drugs that are prohibited from use in the species we raise. It is our responsibility to be informed and educated.

If you speed you may kill yourself and some innocent people - if you use drugs prohibited from use in cattle your actions affect all of us who try to responsibly supply food and may affect those who eat it.

(and one more time) Drugs prohibited from use in cattle-
·  Chloramphenicol
·  Clenbuterol
·  Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
·  Dimetridazole
·  Ipronidazole
·  Other Nitroimidazoles
·  Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, Other Nitrofurans
·  Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cows (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine)
·  Fluoroquinolones
·  Glycopeptides (example: vancomycin)
·  Phenybutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older

 

[Doc]

  DL , I wish I had could say that I've never broken a rule or law , but I have. I don't do drugs or steal or pump air or give steroids, but I do go faster than 70mph & use a puffer on pinkeye. I'm not perfect.  I should have have known not to respond to your post. I know your stand on this type subject. If you need to sic the feds on me, go ahead , Jason has made it easy to find me with the member map.

 

[DL]

  DL , I wish I had could say that I've never broken a rule or law , but I have. I don't do drugs or steal or pump air or give steroids, but I do go faster than 70mph & use a puffer on pinkeye. I'm not perfect.  I should have have known not to respond to your post. I know your stand on this type subject. If you need to sic the feds on me, go ahead , Jason has made it easy to find me with the member map.

My goal Doc is not to lock you up or send the feds after you or even the Mounties - my goal is to make sure that people new to the industry at least have some idea about drug use in animals that are used for food.

You know until you admitted using the puffer I thought you were perfect - dam* - another icon bites the dust!

 

[Doc]

Hey except for the puffer & the speeding , who knows? ;D ( I forgot , I did leave my motor running one time while I pumped gas) But I think that's it!! If I think of anything else I'll let you know. Does this mean I don't have to go to confessional this week?

 

[DL]

Hey except for the puffer & the speeding , who knows? ;D ( I forgot , I did leave my motor running one time while I pumped gas) But I think that's it!! If I think of anything else I'll let you know. Does this mean I don't have to go to confessional this week?

Oh MAN DOC!! I can't be responsible for your immortal soul - at least you should go to confession.com - that should help

and maybe just maybe next time when you reach for the puffer you will see a vision - a woman dressed in flowing black, with a tall hat and with green skin and warts on her nose riding a broom cackling tsk tsk Doc, tsk tsk  ;D

 

[justme]

OK I'm highjacking the post....what happened to the board today???  I've tried off and on all day to get on discussion forumn. 

 

[chambero]

We seem to go two or three years between pink eye cases thank goodness, so I didn't even know "puffers" exist.  But I'm guessing the same prohibition for cattle applies to the "Furox" spray that I've seen vets and everyone else I know use on cattle for as long as I can remember?

DL - do you know why its (furox or whatever its long name is - too lazy to look it up) prohibited?  Is there a real toxicity issue or just the makers haven't bothered to get it approved?

I guess the manufacturers know everyone that needs it uses it anyway so why bother to spend further money to get it formally approved. 

I'd also guess that even though its in the same category as clenbuterol and theoretically could carry the same penalty for use, that actual enforcement is viewed a little differently.  To a certain extent, the FDA is causing its own irrelevance.  Clenbuterol and furox aren't remotely in the same category.  It would be nice if industry, vets, and them could get on the same page a little bit.

 

[DL]

chambero (again please don't shoot the messanger! )

from http://www.fda.gov/cvm/CVM_Updates/nitroup.htm


CVM Update


February 7, 2002

FDA PROHIBITS NITROFURAN DRUG USE IN FOOD-PRODUCING ANIMALS

FDA is issuing an order prohibiting the extralabel use of topical nitrofuran animal and human drugs in food-producing animals. This order is based on evidence that extralabel use of topical nitrofuran drugs in food-producing animals may result in the presence of residues that are carcinogenic and have not been shown to be safe. The Agency finds that such extralabel use presents a risk to the public health for the purposes of the Animal Medicinal Drug Use Clarification Act (AMDUCA) of 1994.

AMDUCA amended the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to allow licensed veterinarians to prescribe extra-label uses of approved animal drugs and human drugs in animals. Section 2(a)(4)(D) of the AMDUCA provides that the Agency may prohibit an extra-label drug use in animals if, after affording an opportunity for public comment, the Agency finds that such use presents a risk to the public health.

In the past, FDA permitted two approved topical nitrofurans to be used in cattle. These products were:

  1. Furazolidone aerosol powder (trade names such as Topazone and Furox aerosol.)
  2.Nitrofurazone topical powder for pinkeye and wounds (trade names such as NFZ Puffer and P.E. 7.)

A carbon-14 (C-14) radio-label residue depletion study conducted by the FDA showed that detectable levels of nitrofuran derivatives are present in edible tissues (milk, meat, kidney, liver) of cattle treated by the ocular (eye) route. The study indicates that use of these nitrofuran products may pose a risk to public health because residues of known carcinogens are present in edible tissues.

The current list of prohibited drugs includes furazolidone and nitrofurazone, but it contains the parenthetical statement (except for approved topical use). FDA plans to remove this parenthetical statement. Once this prohibition is in place, the revised list will state that the following drugs (both animal and human), families of drugs, and substances are prohibited for extra-label uses in all food-producing animals.

  1. Chloramphenicol;
  2.Clenbuterol;
  3.Diethylstilbestrol (DES);
  4.Dimetridazole;
  5.Ipronidazole;
  6.Other nitroimidazoles;
  7.Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, other nitrofurans;
  8.Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cattle (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine);
  9.Fluoroquinolones; and
  10.Glycopeptides.

FDA will consider all comments on this order that the Agency receives by April 8, 2002. Written comments should be submitted to the Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305), Food and Drug Administration, 5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061, Rockville, MD 20852. Electronic comments may be submitted to http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/oc/dockets/commentdocket.cfm. All comments should include Docket number 01N-0499. The order will become effective May 7, 2002, unless FDA revokes or modifies the order or extends the comment period.

Additional information on this prohibition is contained in the February 6, 2002, Federal Register. Questions about this prohibition may be directed to: Gloria J. Dunnavan, Center for Veterinary Medicine (HFV-230), Food and Drug Administration, 7500 Standish Place, Rockville, MD 20855, 301-827-1168. Please note that the address and telephone number for Ms. Dunnavan in the February 6, 2002, Federal Register is incorrect.

 

[chambero]

chambero (again please don't shoot the messanger! )

Not even with a bb gun?

Seriously, we do appreciate the information DL.  I didn't know this one was an issue.  Apparently one has to not only reread their list regularly and then go cross-reference the chemical names against your brand names.  I would have never thought in a million years we weren't supposed to use Furox.

At least they give a reason. 

Off topic, but why does the FDA not outlaw cigarettes and other vices that contain substances they know cause cancer in people but yet they love to prohibit very useful medications in animals (and people) because they might possibly slightly cause in increase in cancer risk above their 1 in 1,000,000 figure?

If I get a calf with a bad cut or pink eye, I can't say what I'll do.  But at least this info lets you know not to doctor something with it and then take it to the sale barn shortly thereafter.

 

[farmboy]

ive had some kind of pinkeye since friday. terrible  :'( <<<< watery eyes

 

[BRdoc]

We haven't had pink eye in years. I do think the right mineral program will definately help. There is a spray that we used that worked great.
Gentocin Spray works super if you have the cow treated regularly. you can find it easily. Just do a web search and you will have alot of options. Along with LA 200, should do the trick.

 

[DL]

chambero (again please don't shoot the messanger! )

Not even with a bb gun?

Seriously, we do appreciate the information DL.  I didn't know this one was an issue.  Apparently one has to not only reread their list regularly and then go cross-reference the chemical names against your brand names.  I would have never thought in a million years we weren't supposed to use Furox.

At least they give a reason. 

Off topic, but why does the FDA not outlaw cigarettes and other vices that contain substances they know cause cancer in people but yet they love to prohibit very useful medications in animals (and people) because they might possibly slightly cause in increase in cancer risk above their 1 in 1,000,000 figure?

If I get a calf with a bad cut or pink eye, I can't say what I'll do.  But at least this info lets you know not to doctor something with it and then take it to the sale barn shortly thereafter.

chambero - if your aim is bad a bb gun would be ok! There is apparently more to the story but I am still digging - basically involved widespread abuse of the compounds by both producers and vets - and since "we" (who ever we is) could not be trusted to do the right thing the puffers and everything else went away.

I am not sure that the gentamicin spray is still available - still checking - Shearing Plough did make it, but not any longer

 

[CAB]

Not sure, but I think that gentamicin was taken off the market some years back. I used to use it to treat scours, then all of a sudden couldn't get it any longer.

 

[Chap]

we seem to fight a little bit of pinkeye every year.  Best treatment method is to catch it quickly, Shoot LA 200 and I squirt a little Pen G in the eye.  I then get some of those disposable dust masks, remove the band and use barn glue around the edges and apply over the eye.  the dust mask is curved and matches perfectly.  the little nose piece will go above the eye and it seals nicely, while letting them see a little bit of shadow and allows the eye to breathe.  in about a week the mask will start to deteriorate and eventually fall off.  I have had several that were pretty close to blind that came back from this treatment with just a little gray spot.  The earlier you catch and treat the better your results.

 

[chambero]

That's a great idea on the eye patch.  Haven't thought of trying that.

 

[DL]

Not sure, but I think that gentamicin was taken off the market some years back. I used to use it to treat scours, then all of a sudden couldn't get it any longer.

CAB - Just so you know the use of gentamicin in cattle is greatly discouraged - the withdrawal (based on drug remaining in the proximal tubule of the kidney) is 18 MONTHS!

 

[simtal]

We've never had pinkeye on any of simmy cows or calves in 15 years.  Bought one angus cow and sure enough, she and the calf got it terrible.

 

[Chap]

i would blame the pinkeye on the fact that you "Bought a cow" not the breed.  The animals that you bring into your herd are going to be naive to the current health challenges.  Your cows have probably develeoped a basic immunity to the pinkeye strain at your place. 

 

[red]

had heard ( might be an old farmer's tale) that black cattle less prone to pinkeye versus white of other color cattle. any truth?

Red

 

[kanshow]

Way back when we had Herefords, some of the selection was based on eye & udder pigementation.  The dark red pigment was supposed to be less susceptable to pinkeye.  There was a correlation in our herd.