polled animals

[aj]

I have always wondered if there has been a polled Buffalo(Bison bison). I did google up a polled water buffalo.....a Bubalis bubalis species. I assume that the Bison bison has never had a polled animal cause its a ways out away from say the bos taurus cattle. BUT......what about dairy cattle? Are they polled or horned? Do dairies dehorn. What about different dairy breeds. What about Amerifax? What about dairy Shorthorns. Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.

 

[Till-Hill]

Dairy cattle yes there are polled lines. Have used a bunch of Lawn boy. And yes we dehorn. I'd say it is more important in dairy cattle as we handle them 2 or 3 or 4 times a day. Tomorrow I'll get you a link to couple of polled dairy breeders.

 

[Lucky_P]

Polled Holsteins & Jerseys been around for a while.
I used to follow the polled & R&W Holsteins pretty closely... was a big fan of Hanover-Hill Triple Threat & the Burket Falls program...
Burket Falls has been breeding polled (and R&W) Holsteins since at least back in the 1960s... http://www.burketfallsfarm.com/home.html

Good article on history of Polled Holsteins here:
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/documents/polled-holsteins-history

While you're pondering polledness... have a read on the 'dominant' red (black-carrier) factor that's popped up a couple of times in the Red & White dairy cattle...
http://www.redandwhitecattle.com/genetics.html

Haven't really followed the polled Jerseys...believe there may be some polled Brown Swiss cattle, too.

 

[cbcr]

We represent as a registry Fleckvieh, Montbeliarde, Swedish Red and White, Norwegian Red, Red Dane and other dairy crosses.

The Fleckvieh has a few polled bulls that are available, Norwegian Red also has some polled bulls and they are also ranking very high for TPI which is increasing their use. Many of the other breeds are working towards being able to have and offer polled genetics.

Pressure from animal activist groups (even in Europe) is putting more pressure to stop de-horning because of them thinking it is cruel.

In recent years there has been more interest in having the polled gene available, but in order for producers to take using polled animals more seriously the bulls need to be homozygous polled, otherwise there is only a 50% chance of getting a polled animal.  But again, breeding  specifically for the polled gene is not something that very many dairy producers are doing.

With the dairy industry, production is what is most important and pays the bills and that is how the bulls are chosen for use, based on production traits.  As polled becomes a management trait that can be incorporated into the selection of bulls to use, and with Embryo Transplant  it would be quite easy to flush top cows to polled bulls to increase the availability of polled sons from some of these cow families.

Here in the US there are Jersey and Holstein breeders that have been breeding for the polled gene for over 40 years.

 

[aj]

Thanks.......I know all the original Hubs Shorthorns(dual purpose) were horned in the 1970's.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

AJ, I read on some articles that a huge percentage of American Bisons show some cattle blood, maybe in some time soon, polled animals will pop up on the Bison population. But, if they will have time to mate, only wolves will answer!

 

[Lucky_P]

CSI,
I've seen similar articles, indicating that most bison in the USA have some bovine genetics behind them.
Case in point - 'white-faced' bison, as seen here: http://www.pbase.com/janmyers/image/130133201
Has at least some Hereford(?) genetics at least 14 generations back...if they'd used a Polled Hereford, perhaps the polled gene would have floated along with the white face...

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

CSI,
I've seen similar articles, indicating that most bison in the USA have some bovine genetics behind them.
Case in point - 'white-faced' bison, as seen here: http://www.pbase.com/janmyers/image/130133201
Has at least some Hereford(?) genetics at least 14 generations back...if they'd used a Polled Hereford, perhaps the polled gene would have floated along with the white face...

Agree.....add to herefords, some Aberdeen, Charolais and Shorthorns would to be found on Bison population.
Think that soon a polled Bison would to be created.

 

[aj]

I guess there was a beefalo herd attempted. I actually have a neighbor who crossed up some yak and bos taurus. Kee Rist. I guess there could be a th afflicted buffalo........a monument to mans screwing stuff up chasing blue ribbons.

 

[aj]

It seems the Wood bison can breed with bison. I got a buddy that claims that the black footed ferret was saved from extinction by using another ferret type. Supposedly the government sealed the papers on this federal project. My buddy claimed that this bred out some of the agressiveness towards prairie dogs.

 

[librarian]

In the old books, there is commonly a reference to an extinct breed of dairy cattle, the Suffolk Dun.
They were small and poorly shaped, the books say, but the percentage of butterfat was terrific and the pounds of milk to pounds of cow ratio was exceptional.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7_s6AwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT188&dq=suffolk%20dun%20cattle&pg=PT188#v=onepage&q=suffolk%20dun%20cattle&f=false
They says the Suffolk Dun Polls were crossed with Norfolk red cows to produce Red Polls, which replaced both breeds.
Red Polls are still around as dual purpose cattle and highly regarded.
Reading the ads in old Shorthorn Worlds (1920 or so, I noticed a lot of Red Poll herds in the midwest in close proximity to Shorthorn herds.  Some Shorthorns from that time have a head very like a Red Poll.
https://books.google.com/books?id=HCBCAAAAcAAJ&dq=suffolk%20dun%20cattle&pg=PA174#v=onepage&q=suffolk%20dun%20cattle&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=oJY5AQAAMAAJ&dq=suffolk%20dun%20norwegian%20red%20cattle&pg=PA132#v=onepage&q=suffolk%20dun%20norwegian%20red%20cattle&f=false

And my favorite
The Suffolk Dun breed is a sort of neat cattle found to prevail in that district and which are easily distinguished by their being polled of small size and a dun color. They are mostly plain in their form. The cows are lean and large in their bellies They are valuable for the purpose of the dairy as the cows give large quantities of milk. The weight of this breed of cattle is mostly on the average from fifty to sixty stone. The author of the Treatise on Live Stock seems to think this only a variety of the following breed (Galloway) produced in consequence of the great connection between the Scotch drovers and the Suffolk and Norfolk feeders as both sorts are in general polled and though the Suffolk are mostly light duns while the others vary greatly in color this might take place from some partiality to that color.
then he discusses the Galloway breed, explaining
...from the West of Scotland, where they are mostly bred upon the moors or hilly country and upon the lands nearer the sea until rising four or five years old when the graziers and drovers take them up in great numbers to the fairs in Norfolk and Suffolk previous to the turnip feeding season whence the greatest part are again removed in the winter and spring when fat to supply the consumption of the capital where they are readily sold at high prices.

but that idea is disputed here, and probably correctly. Whenever Youatt is paraphrased it is usually I sign that the author has just grabbed the first and most popular reference and has not given the matter original thought.
https://books.google.com/books?id=0Gg4AQAAMAAJ&dq=suffolk%20dun%20norwegian%20red%20cattle&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q=suffolk%20dun%20norwegian%20red%20cattle&f=false

 

[BroncoFan]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the polled gene is a dominant trait so two horned cattle or bison won't produce a polled calf.

 

[hntwhitetail]

Wonder if Bison started DS?  (pop)

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the polled gene is a dominant trait so two horned cattle or bison won't produce a polled calf.

Yes, poll gene is dominant.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Wonder if Bison started DS?  (pop)

Perhaps the bisons will to be the master of genetics diseases, as almost all breeds could to be inside then!
Hope not!!

 

[Lucky_P]

It's conceivable that a spontaneous mutation of the horn gene to polled could result in two horned parents producing  polled offspring.

There was a discussion here on SP about the Shorthorn bull GS Thunder 6E 6J a while back, which carries the 'sx' notation on his registration number - polled sport... polled offspring of two horned parents? (or, was there a polled animal 'in the woodpile'?)

Back when I was still in veterinary practice, I had a couple of clients with Beefalo herds.  At the purebred level - 5/8 bovine - 3/8 bison - some exhibited noticeable bison phenotypic traits, but most just looked like crossbred beef cattle.  Disposition was crazy - and I was accustomed to working with Brahman-influenced stuff on a daily basis.  The beefalos made the wildest Beefmasters look like puppy dogs. 
One client had  a 3/4 bison 1/4 Brahman heifer - huge bison-looking thing with floppy ears - and an infantile vulva/vagina - it was the only vaginal prolapse that I was never able to reduce/replace...

I suspect that the bovine introgression into the bison herd is fairly small and distant...but articles I've seen suggest that there are few totally 'pure' herds.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

It's conceivable that a spontaneous mutation of the horn gene to polled could result in two horned parents producing  polled offspring.

There was a discussion here on SP about the Shorthorn bull GS Thunder 6E 6J a while back, which carries the 'sx' notation on his registration number - polled sport... polled offspring of two horned parents? (or, was there a polled animal 'in the woodpile'?)

Back when I was still in veterinary practice, I had a couple of clients with Beefalo herds.  At the purebred level - 5/8 bovine - 3/8 bison - some exhibited noticeable bison phenotypic traits, but most just looked like crossbred beef cattle.  Disposition was crazy - and I was accustomed to working with Brahman-influenced stuff on a daily basis.  The beefalos made the wildest Beefmasters look like puppy dogs. 
One client had  a 3/4 bison 1/4 Brahman heifer - huge bison-looking thing with floppy ears - and an infantile vulva/vagina - it was the only vaginal prolapse that I was never able to reduce/replace...

I suspect that the bovine introgression into the bison herd is fairly small and distant...but articles I've seen suggest that there are few totally 'pure' herds.

Beefmaster are crazy?

 

[Lucky_P]

LOL!  30 years ago...many were; at least in my practice area...

 

[HerefordGuy]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the polled gene is a dominant trait so two horned cattle or bison won't produce a polled calf.

Cattle are more closely related to bison than they are to water buffalo. In other words, cattle and bison share a common ancestor more recently than cattle and buffalo.
Many people consider woods bison and plains bison subspecies, not separate species.

Most bison have a small percentage of cattle DNA. Polled is dominant so it is very easy to remove from the population with selection. I don't think the polled variant remained in bison long after mixture with cattle, assuming it was introduced in the first place.

Polled has arisen separately in domestic sheep, goats, and cattle. But, I don't think it would be very successful in a wild species. 

 

[aj]

What about a mountain big horned sheep. Could a mutation occur with them.....in theory.......one mutant individual?