Pretty interesting stuff. Residual feed intake article

[trevorgreycattleco]

http://www.progressivecattle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4531%3Amidland-bull-test-big-on-forage-efficiency&catid=93%3Afeatured-main-page&utm_source=E-newsletters&utm_campaign=27a685bba7-022712PC_Extra&utm_medium=email



I found this pretty good reading. I agree 100%. Those easier keeping, less hay eating cows can run with the other higher input cows. I think cows that eat less can still milk well. Thoughts? Shorthorn people should read this!

 

[Limiman12]

Read an article in limousin world last issue.    Small sample size of about fifty head each breed or so, but limi,s ate 3.6 or3.7 pounds less per day for the same gain.....

Looking at our herd, I know there are cows that burn a lot more hay and truffle to keep flesh.  I guess I just figured they were not smart enough to figure out there was corn laying on the ground if they looked hard enough.

 

[TJ]

I found this pretty good reading. I agree 100%. Those easier keeping, less hay eating cows can run with the other higher input cows. I think cows that eat less can still milk well. Thoughts? Shorthorn people should read this!

I agree 100% too.  Despite flawed modern wisdom that you must have the biggest framed cattle to get maximum feedlot performance, our Tarentaise bull, MHWF The Intimidator, sired the top gaining carcass (actual daily gain with carcass % factored together) at the Great Western Beef Expo Feedlot and Carcass Contest in Sterling, Colorado, back in the mid 90's.  Funny thing was, that bull weighed about a ton in top condition and he was not very tall at all.  We never measured him, at least I don't remember doing it, but I'd guess him around a low frame 5.  One of his offspring, Bluegrass Energizer (a pretty similar sized bull that we raised) was advertised by Kit Pharo as being a frame 4.5, so maybe I am being a bit generous.  Irregardless, you don't need a giant to achieve top feedlot performance.  Period.  In fact, our pen of Intimidator sired steers made the top 10 for feed efficiency in that same test, and IMHO, that is even more important.     

 

[TJ]

Just read the Sullivan Flyer thread below.  Totally goes against what I just posted above.  You can achieve 1,300+ lb. finished steers at 13-14 months of age with a frame 5-6 bull, if you work at it.  I know.  IMHO, it's got a lot more to do with having the right genetics and the right body type than it has to do with having a huge frame size.  But, to each his or her own.  If you like big frame cattle, have fun and enjoy them.  Just simply saying that you don't necessarily have to have giants to excel in the feedlot.           

 

[Mill Iron A]

I agree that a frame 5-6 can produce a 1300+ fat calf no problem. I just think it is nieve to believe that the cow behind that calf weighs 1150.  Feed efficiency does have a place in production but I question how we are getting this information. Look up the range cow symposium and look at andy Roberta presentation.

 

[knabe]

Would like to have a small udder with high butterfat and have calf be an eater, yet wean late without affecting cows ability to breed back.

 

[TJ]

I agree that a frame 5-6 can produce a 1300+ fat calf no problem. I just think it is nieve to believe that the cow behind that calf weighs 1150.  Feed efficiency does have a place in production but I question how we are getting this information. Look up the range cow symposium and look at andy Roberta presentation.

At the Great Western Beef Expo, they weighed the actual feed fed & the steers.  Each pen entry (sire group) was fed individually from the other pen entries (sire groups).  That is how that information was gathered.  

 

[HAB]

Would like to have a small udder with high butterfat and have calf be an eater, yet wean late without affecting cows ability to breed back.

Sounds like a breed that I am very familiar with.  O0

 

[TJ]

Would like to have a small udder with high butterfat and have calf be an eater, yet wean late without affecting cows ability to breed back.

Very much off of the original topic, but...  It sounds like you should consider a Jersey cross or a Tarentaise cross cow nursing a Lowline Angus sired calf, based on your criteria.  I bred some pretty young, late born, purebred, virgin Tarentaise heifers to my first Lowline bull.  The following year half of them bred up at least 30 days.  The Lowline X Tarentaise eat real well on just grass only.  Throw them a little corn and I have no doubt that you could finish one at a year, if you really wanted.  However, you just can't beat a true F1 female nursing a true 3 way cross (50% X 25% X 25%) Steer calf, IMHO.  With that in mind...    

A Galloway X Tarentaise cross cow bred to a Lowline Angus bull just might be the real deal for what you are wanting to do & then some.  


I didn't mention this above, but I should have.  IMHO, the key to acheiving top feedlot performance with moderate framed cattle is having genetics that are fairly early maturing.  Early maturing cattle will grow quick, reach their finished weight easily by 13-14 months and they will actually be finished.
finish.        

 

[kfacres]

READ- Numbers don't lie, even though I'm not a big framed cattle lover...

I just got finished crunching some numbers in ratio of frame score to a couple different measurable traits on (I think) 234 bulls that have been through the Western IL Bull Test during the last couple of years.  Measuring feed efficiency is something that is a highlighted point at WIU.  I'm sure this work has been done before- but I can't recall ever seeing anything like it.

My findings:

Well, I can’t say that a most definite advantage lies to any frame score- or sub frame score on the bulls that have gone through the WIU Bull Test.  It appears as if when comparing cattle on self feeding rations- a 7 frame pretty well excels every time- I wonder how this could be compared to bulls on limited or zero grain and forage based diets. 

I wish I had an adjusted 365 day weight on the bull- and a body condition score.  That would determine if frame score has anything to do with actual weight- or fleshing ease.

Very interesting things I have seen as well…

Hopefully, you might learn something from this- I know I sure did as well.

 

[kfacres]

no thoughts from the grassfed, moderate framed lover------- such as myself? :-*

 

[SeannyT]

I am involved with a trial at the moment looking at RFI in beef bulls, and I can say that the idea of being able to select for more efficient animals is very exciting. It could be done in a way that's similar to selecting by EPD's. The technology is being used in some test stations and research farms at present, but it may be a little while before you or I have access to affordable RFI determination equipment.

You always wonder if the "easy doers' of your herd actually do eat less and perform the same as everyone else. Through my project so far I have seen wide differences in intakes with surprisingly similar performance among animals.

 

[Aussie]

TGCC interesting article always good for a discussion. My take is in these post http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=37046.0

 

[kfacres]

I am involved with a trial at the moment looking at RFI in beef bulls, and I can say that the idea of being able to select for more efficient animals is very exciting. It could be done in a way that's similar to selecting by EPD's. The technology is being used in some test stations and research farms at present, but it may be a little while before you or I have access to affordable RFI determination equipment.

You always wonder if the "easy doers' of your herd actually do eat less and perform the same as everyone else. Through my project so far I have seen wide differences in intakes with surprisingly similar performance among animals.

I believe that if allowed to eat grain-- my 'easy doers' are the best eaters-- as are their offspring.  so if they eat twice as much-- are they really 'easy doing'...  visually speaking of course.

 

[TJ]

I believe that if allowed to eat grain-- my 'easy doers' are the best eaters-- as are their offspring.  so if they eat twice as much-- are they really 'easy doing'...  visually speaking of course.

If they are like most of mine, under that very same scenario, I wouldn't be calling them "really easy doing", I would be calling them dowright obese. 

 

[knabe]

Is there a difference between beliefs and facts?

 

[kfacres]

Is there a difference between beliefs and facts?

yes when it is on paper-- such as the numbers and posting that i did--- it is a fact.

 

[knabe]

Is there a difference between beliefs and facts?

yes when it is on paper-- such as the numbers and posting that i did--- it is a fact.

Specifically what is a fact dust storm. How did you measure it. 

 

[kfacres]

Is there a difference between beliefs and facts?

yes when it is on paper-- such as the numbers and posting that i did--- it is a fact.

Specifically what is a fact dust storm. How did you measure it. 

you obviously are clueless. 

B/c you are not worth my time to type out a big long/ fact filled response;

Go here: http://www.wiu.edu/bulltest/  and read for yourself, links on left will tell the whole story- bulls being weighed, measurements taken- and results.  I have all results and measurements from 08-11; which were used to compile the graphs I posted.

sorry, don't sue me for compiling a graph of facts and stats.

 

[knabe]

What are the facts?  You haven't proven anything straw man.

Once again, you logic fails. You responded.

Every post is the same thing. 

A personal attack and a vague claim of your manhood.

What do you drive a Ferrari?