Problems at County Fair

[Bawndoh]

We shouldnt worry so much about those who "play the game".  Most of them go home to miserable lives anyways.  It is supprising how you will judge someone to "have it so easy" because they win all the time, yet you go on to find out that their personal lives are in turmoil.  You know, I would rather have so-so calves, and never win any majors, than be known because I am a cheater/lier.  I would rather go home with my cattle that work for me, work for the farm, and work for MY customers, than go home pouting cause that Big Deal won yet another show!!
It is pretty sick the extent to which people go to to "look" good and impress people.

 

[oakbar]

Before we get way out of hand, I'd like to make a comment that, not everyone will agree with, but I think it needs to be said!!  I don't want to see the website denegrate into the negativity and bitching of many of  the other websites---that's one of the things I've liked best about Steerplanet.   Most people on here are supportive and positive--at least most of the time.

Lets look at another take on this issue!!

Not all judges place cattle by who they know in the ring or on the sidelines.   We've known several of the judges at our county fair over the years--some I consider good friends!!   I don't  think its ever really helped us or hurt us--we certainly would've won more shows  or placed a lot higher at times if it was helping us.   I think in actual fact, if a judge knows you or your kids very well it might even work against you in some cases.  

A friend of mine does a lot of judging and he has commented that he always reminds himself not to place an animal above another just becuase he might  know the person leading it.  As someone said earlier"only look at the calf, not who's leading it"!   Actually, my friend probably shows a little reverse discrimination.   Do I think he should not judge anymore---NO!!   He's absolutely fantastic with the kids and is fair when he places the animals.   Do I always agree with him??   Absolutely not!!   But I know him well enough to know that he has no malice for any of the kids in the ring and is giving his honest opinion.  After all, a good healthy debate about placings is part and parcel of the cattle business.   On that particular day the judge is paid for his opinion--none of us are!!   While I agree that sometimes it looks like there is favoritism for some folks in the ring, lets make sure we are honestly evaluating the animals and the process without the overlay of our emotions for our children, etc.  before we get too critical.  We can't all win no matter how hard we work or how much we want our child to "succeed".   Sometimes, even when its not fair, someone else gets first!!   While I don't like it when this happens, it doesn't mean our kids have not grown and learned a lot about life from the experience.  Some of our best experiences as parents and teachers come about when things aren't always fair!!  If we react negatively, what can we expect our kids to do in the future except not participate or become complainers.  I even heard one of my friends daughters say one time "Dad, I don't want to win or someone will say I've cheated or know the judge or something.  She works hard with her calves and they don't pay a lot of money for them so I think its pretty sad, when the overzealous competitive nature of the parents threaten to spoil her accomplishments.

I've been involved in hiring judges for all types of junior shows and no matter who you hire, someone will accuse them of picking favorites.   Judging is hard work!!  If we don't like what happens we need to get involved in the process rather than vent on line afterwards!!  Most judges really like kids and are trying to help them so lets stay positive about the experience!!

I'll step down off my soapbox now before someone takes out a contract on me!!  

 

[GONEWEST]

Maybe I was misunderstood about the child cheating part of my novel. I've never thought that judges were to blame for most of the negative aspects of livestock showing. It is a difficult task. You make a few happy and a bunch mad. Everyone has an opinion on the best one. All you can hope for is a fair chance and that the judge is good in dealing with the kids and able to explain his logic instead of just spewing buzz words. If those  things happen, then you've got a good judge, no matter what opinion he expresses. It can be difficult to find a judge like that. One show last year used the 32nd person they offered the job to. But just being a livestock judge doesn't make your character any better than the next guy. And you'll find a bad apple or two at every level.
Judges are something you just have to accept, deal with and go the next time.

The ones I find most often cheating children are the breeders and sellers of the calves, the ag teachers, and most of all the PARENTS. The kid who's steer tested out in my above post didn't say to the jock, "Hey, let's shoot him with some Lasix." he didn't say, "Here teach, sign this that says I got my steer on the farm by Sept. 30." He didn't say" hey dad it's January, the show is in a month and my steer doesn't look like he'll win. How 'bout going to OK and buying me one that will." That is on the jock, the ag teacher and the parents. Again, my question is why do people who raise their children to do the right thing,in all aspects of life, allow those who think its best to win at all costs, to get away with it??

 

[Show Heifer]

Why I am surprised at some of you.... if one should "expect" breeders/promoters to lie about BW's why in the world would I expect judges to be fair???  If exhibitors/breeders can lie, why not judges, fairboard members etc??? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander....ring a bell??

EPD's in the show ring....well.....I guess that would be ok, as well as the DNA test results for breed purity, defects, and parentage. Kinda like that idea.
In a heifer class I like EPD's....just another tool to be used, just like the ol' eye balls and common sense....something that just isn't around anymore.

The exact same thing happened to me when I was showing....I mean EXACTLY. Dad got on the fairboard and rattled enough cages to clean sweep the board with new people. I didn't win the next year either, but neither did the recycled water poor family that pulled the stunt. It seems like the people that cause the most troubles are those that are not willing to step up to the "authority" platform....whether it is the fairboard, coaching, government. If you see an injustice, go after them by taking their "job". Don't get thrown out by the police for assult. TAKE AWAY THEIR POWER!
Yep, makes ya mad, but the quicker the child learns that life isn't fair so get over it, the easier life will be for them. Doesn't give anyone the right to cheat, but accepting that some people just are not who they seem to be/or represent themselves to be makes life easier.

 

[cowz]

We have visited this topic several times here.  The disgruntled group makes rule changes.  The hired jocks find a way around the rules.  The old hag control freak 4-H matriarch....(Come on, every town has one of these worthless controlling women)...has to make exceptions for her pets.  This kind of stuff really does wear you down to a nub.  Takes the joy out of it sometimes.

I don't have the answer.  Go ahead and enter the fair, pick the best cattle you can, feed the heck out of them, have the kids learn the art of working the hair and clipping.  Take the politics with a stiff upper lip.  DO NOT fall into the temptation of kissing up.  There is nothing worse in this short life than a brown noser.  Anyhow, I do know that in counties that have seen a lot of new rules and changes, the families that work hard, know how to feed and pick one, still do the best.

Fairboards and Extension Agents- If they are unethical and spineless, try to get rid of them.

In the end, your children will get rewarded in one form or the other. 

 

[Dusty]

Why I am surprised at some of you.... if one should "expect" breeders/promoters to lie about BW's why in the world would I expect judges to be fair???  If exhibitors/breeders can lie, why not judges, fairboard members etc??? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander....ring a bell??

EPD's in the show ring....well.....I guess that would be ok, as well as the DNA test results for breed purity, defects, and parentage. Kinda like that idea.
In a heifer class I like EPD's....just another tool to be used, just like the ol' eye balls and common sense....something that just isn't around anymore.

The exact same thing happened to me when I was showing....I mean EXACTLY. Dad got on the fairboard and rattled enough cages to clean sweep the board with new people. I didn't win the next year either, but neither did the recycled water poor family that pulled the stunt. It seems like the people that cause the most troubles are those that are not willing to step up to the "authority" platform....whether it is the fairboard, coaching, government. If you see an injustice, go after them by taking their "job". Don't get thrown out by the police for assult. TAKE AWAY THEIR POWER!
Yep, makes ya mad, but the quicker the child learns that life isn't fair so get over it, the easier life will be for them. Doesn't give anyone the right to cheat, but accepting that some people just are not who they seem to be/or represent themselves to be makes life easier.

I knew he guy who stood up to the "authority platform" once, yeah he got fired.
"TAKE AWAY THEIR POWER!"  Gimme a break... This a cattle show we are talking about, not an opressive militant dictatorship!!!!  If you don't like how your fair is ran go to another county...  It's not that big of a deal.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I grew up most shows I've seen the top calves end up at the top 99% of the time.  I don't think it's near as much politics as it is some people just have better cattle.  Claiming "politics" is just a cheap excuse a lot of times.  

Oh in regards to you referring to the other family as "recycled water poor", that is quite possibly the most chilish, arrogant, chicken sh** comment that I have ever heard on this board.  I think it shows a lot to your character.  If you don't like someone fine, I don't even care if you complain about what they did.  But, to insult a family about their financial status is pretty low.  I grew up "recycled water poor" and if I ever heard someone refer to my family that way it would be ugly.  In a perfect world the family you are referring to would read your post and you would quite deservingly get popped in the mouth!!!

 

[renegade]

what exactly does "recycled water poor" i have an idea but not sure.  Also i have seen politics play a lot in open shows , in county i see it but not as much because the kids dont have the same judge over and over and dont travel much but it happens. I dont think that you could replace someone on the fair board around here unless they retired  :.  If you have the best calves in the barn PEOPLE NOTICE even if you dont get grand like you were suppose to or something like that.  The kid that doesnt put in the work, or wins because of his name or something like that isnt gonna make it in the real world, isnt gonna be offered top dollar for his calves or get a job working with one of the top show strings in the state. I know, its happend to me and people i know  ;D what goes around comes around - those of us who work hard are gonna get a reward in the end.

 

[Bawndoh]

- those of us who work hard are gonna get a reward in the end.

"In the end" is right.  It takes forever.  I have grown up with so many - guys especially- who run their mouth, and drink after hours at the barn/bar/beergardens.  I have seen them get so far ahead so fast just because they can drink and talk.  It is really frustrating for people like me who exibit cattle that can walk properly, get fed honestly, have real birthdates and accurate pedigrees.  But whatever, someday I will be standing at the top, laughing at them because they got themselves into too much trouble from drinking, breaking the rules, and cheating the system.  What really sucks is that most of these types of people couldnt really ever tell you a good animal from a hole in the ground.  They simply buy/sleep/gossip/drink their way to the top.

 

[DLD]

Wow, this one has gotten interesting...

First, a couple of questions for the original poster, Earl.  The way you say "We showed our heifer in the replacement heifer class... " makes me wonder - was there another class that you could have shown your heifer in that was more geared to "show type heifers"?  Also, is fitting not the norm, maybe even frowned upon, in your county? If you can answer yes to either of these questions, then what happened, while it's still not right, shouldn't have been unexpected. If not, then I do apologize,and your son certainly was done wrong,  it's just that so many times there's more to the story.

No doubt there are unbelievable amounts of bull crap rules and shenanigans from fair boards, show commitees, superintendents, etc..., that happen because these folks think it's to their advantage and/or someone else's disadvantage. But in the end I still think that most of 'em are there for the right reasons. Just like I think most judges do try to line the cattle up for how they see 'em.  Of course, that leaves me thinking that a whole lot of  judges, while they aren't neccesarily crooked, just don't know much about judging cattle...    For some people, it seems to be a whole lot easier to say they got cheated than to just admit that they got beat.

Of course we all want our kids to win, but we're trying really hard to teach ours to work hard and do their very best, and whether they win or lose, do it gracefully. When it's all said and done, the ones that do it right will take the most away from the experience.

 

[red]

not every breeder lies about bw'S, epd'S, ages, or parentage. I the the % that does is way smaller than the % that doesn't. Not every judge is on the take or corrupt. Not every parent that is involved in their kids projects is a back stage "mother"

Hate generalizations & lumping everyone in a group.

JMO, Red

 

[earl]

The replacement heifer show is for crossbred and reg heifers.  We have a tag in date in October and the classes are broke by weight.  The heifer we showed was a cross that we bought just for this class.  We do show reg heifers earlier in the week and some kids do show there replacement heifer in the AOB or ABC class.  We showed her in the ABC class earlier with her being champion ABC.  We fit but about 60% of the people do not fit but most have no help.  Last year my son went and fit heifers for other kids and ended up being reserve behind a heifer he fit. 

 

[justme]

Wow I leave for 2 days and this posts goes all over the place.  Simple points that are being forgotten.  Why pentalize a calf that is fit?  If its not a rule then it was wrong.  Second, and the biggest, the fairboard member should have NEVER talked to the judge as he's judging a class or the final drive.  My husband is the head superintendent at the NW MO State fair and he'd NEVER bother a judge during that.  Not everyone has the time to be on a fairboard,  you shouldn't suggest that.  BUT, just from our experience, we have lots of people not on the board that helps out and we appreciate it so much.  Maybe volunteer for a committee ect.

I feel bad for the kid.  He was done wrong, and it should be addressed to the fairboard.  I don't blame you for being upset. 

I have no idea how a families income came into play here.  Sadly, the kids with the $ can afford better cattle.  We cann't afford the big $ calves.  We try to find the best in our budget.  I stress SHOWMANSHIP to my kids.  That is one place the playing floor is level for them. 

 

[kanshow]

I think I would just stay out of that class next year or at the very least ask for a complete concise written copy of the rules from the superintendent. 

 

[Show Heifer]

To clear up a point: In my neck of the woods, the term "piss poor" (recycled water - for the politically correct) has NOTHING to do with financial being. NOTHING. The term means (in my neck of the woods) "bad attitude, corrupt, bad..." So when I said the piss poor family didn't win either, it meant the family that cheated and took away my chance of winning didn't win either. Finances has nothing to do with that term. Trust me, I picked up pop cans for my rabbit money!!!
So, Dusty before you start cussing and showing your "sailor self", maybe you should know what your refering too. And please don't cuss using #$U#(*$&#$&(  symbols...even my little neighbor boy age 3 knows what that means. This is a family board....DO NOT CUSS....right red???????

And in my area, you can step up to the plate and become a fairboard member, or a coach, or about any other volunteer position.  You just have to have the guts and the backbone to do it.

 

[aj]

We had the wash rack drain plug up at our county fair it was a mess. ;D

 

[Dusty]

Our wash rack drained into the road ditch at county fair.....  So we never had a mess...

And Show Heifer, if your 3 year old neighbor is reading posts on steer planet, I would be interested in hearing his opinion on the current subject matter. 

 

[renegade]

BOTH  of our fairs had women judges last year for beef  !  I agreed with about 90% of their decisions.  They were friendly, explained their decisions, and played it strait. One even talked to me about how she used too show bulls in showmanship too. 

At our county fair there are two sisters that are "unbeatable" at showmanship (but they are nothing at state) and there grandpa does all the work.  It got down to the two sisters for reserve and grand. The younger sister was chosen grand and the older one was reserve and so the older one threw her show stick down and tried to stomp out of the arena. The lady judge said get back here young lady, Im not done with you!  It sure took (i hate to say it but SPOILED BRAT) down a notch and made her give a little respect.

 

[farmgirl760]

Not every parent that is involved in their kids projects is a back stage "mother"

Hate generalizations & lumping everyone in a group.

JMO, Red

Thank you Red for stating that!!! At our local fair the parents and family are not allowed to help at all!!! You cannot help feed, water, clean, or even hold there animal for them. My mother and I are involved in cattle with my sister and we show also. I get really upset when people tell us that since we do show that we should back off when my sister has her animals there becuase they are her project. Im sorry but as a family we have gotten to where we are by helping each other. I know that if I have a question I can go and ask my sister and (most of the time ) she will help me and vise versa. When it comes to her 4H animals  she asks us our opinions but the final decision has always been hers,she researches and chooses the proper feeding regime for her calves, does her own washing, and does her own fitting before a show. She has taken the time to learn and study what she needs to to do well in her "showing" career. When we get to shows we let her do what she needs to do and when she asks for help we help.

We may not always win the Grand Champion Title in Market but she won every showmanship class over the past year that she has entered and she won Masters Large Animal Showmanship at our fair last year. (not bragging just trying to make a point ) I believe that showmanship is where you truly can tell where they ones are that have a hands on attitude with their animals and the ones that dont. Anyone can make a steer look good but it takes that certain time factor to be able to go in a ring and anwser questions and show your animal. So what if we help them get ready and help her when she needs it but when they are in that ring they are on their own!!!

Sorry for my rant but i wish some people would just understand that we are just trying to help!!! (lol)

 

[aj]

You better hope the epa doesn't find out about your wash rack drainage or there will be problems at your county fair.

 

[Dusty]

You better hope the epa doesn't find out about your wash rack drainage or there will be problems at your county fair.

Why it's just water....no different that washing your pickup or washing your dog out in your driveway....

And in my area, you can step up to the plate and become a fairboard member, or a coach, or about any other volunteer position.  You just have to have the guts and the backbone to do it.

In my area noone wants to do any of those jobs because they don't want to have to deal with the people like you...