protein tubs

[braunvieh]

Do you use protein tubs and if so, do you use them year round or just at certain times of the year? Does anyone have trouble with overconsumption of protein tubs? I put out two 250# tubs for our cows a couple weeks ago and it was the first protein they had gotten since spring. The 30 cows had them gone in a week! They are also going through the salt and mineral like crazy too. Anyone else have this problem? I can't afford to keep it out there free choice if they consume it this fast!

 

[knabe]

hmmm, calving bw's???

 

[braunvieh]

Not sure what you mean about calving bw's. We don't have any calving issues or high birth weights, and we don't feed much protein as it gets closer to calving. We mostly just put it out when the grass is dead and they go on stalks and aren't getting any other feed.

 

[C-CROSS]

You might want to look into lick tanks, they are usually 1/2 the price per ton and higher in protein.  Up here in north country they are used a lot with corn fields and such.  Doesn't seem to have a barring on birth weights.

 

[knabe]

Not sure what you mean about calving bw's. We don't have any calving issues or high birth weights, and we don't feed much protein as it gets closer to calving. We mostly just put it out when the grass is dead and they go on stalks and aren't getting any other feed.

just a comment about birth weights due to higher protein % if one switches to fall calving for out west due to, like you said, less protein dry grass and one might switch to something more mineral based.

 

[justme]

We put it out when we start feeding hay.  The vitaferm ones are nice.  Our cows usually go crazy on them at first.  They always (for us) slow down the consumption.  Guess its like giving candy to a kid, at first they want it all, but eventually slow down.

 

[ploughshare]

Do you use protein tubs and if so, do you use them year round or just at certain times of the year? Does anyone have trouble with overconsumption of protein tubs? I put out two 250# tubs for our cows a couple weeks ago and it was the first protein they had gotten since spring. The 30 cows had them gone in a week! They are also going through the salt and mineral like crazy too. Anyone else have this problem? I can't afford to keep it out there free choice if they consume it this fast!

Try moving the mineral feeder and tub farther way from the water tank.  This will cut down on consumption.  I assume you have salt mixed in with the mineral or buy a mineral with salt already in the mix.  I am using organic mineral and had to move the mineral feeder half way between the water and the feed so the cows won't routinely move back and forth between the mineral and the water.  They now average about an ounce of mineral/head/day.  At $37 a bag, that's expensive enough.  I quite using the protein tubs.  Too expensive when fed with decent hay or pasture.  I might set one out in early spring with new pasture, but thats it.

 

[HeiferShower14]

your best bet if u wanna save money is to just feed them cake cubes. Thats wat we do and if were going some where we put protien tubs.

 

[aj]

Cake is usually about half price of tubs but it takes time and if you have to go a distance with a pickup or whatever that cost gas also. If you put tubs at far end of pastures away from water this reduces consumption of tub. I know tubs are ungodly high priced now and I assume that cake is too. I have heard that just starting up a tractor now days costs 50$ if you figure depreciation wear on engine on start up, fuel on and on and tubs are laborless.

 

[justintime]

I use protien and mineral tubs once in awhile. I use them when I am grazing the cows on old mature grass, in the fall . I also use them in the winter to supplement the cows for a few weeks  before calving starts. They are probably the most expensive protien and mineral/vitamin source available, but in my case, I think convenience is a consideration. The cows do consume the first ones very quickly, but after a few, they slow down on their consumption. It is much like candy to them. Last winter I bought 4 tubs... two of two different kinds. My feed supplier asked me to take the two types and report to him which ones lasted the longest. All four tubs were placed out in the cow pens just before dark late one afternoon. The next morning I checked the tubs to see if there were any differences ...all four were completely gone. I told the feed supplier that I would have had to stay out there all night to see which type lasted the longest. These tubs are rather costly at $75-80 each. I have found that I have not had a retained placenta if I feed the tubs for a few weeks before calving starts. It also seems that our calves are very healthy and vigorous at birth. Normally, I feed the tubs for about two or three weeks, and then I use the plastic tubes left over from the protein blocks to hold regular 1:1 mineral mixed equally with loose blue or high boot salt.

 

[tama]

Braun we use tubs most of winter most people up-here do supplement mineral salt as others have listed. I started on tubs on advise from feed dude at my elevator don't worry about consumption after 1st tub cows dropped back to a 1lb a day Cows are so much smarter than us how do they know??! I posted reply to add just one thing --you get what you pay for! As all of the real cowmen on this site advise high quality mineral salt good quality hay-the quality of tubs varies I looked at cheap tubs in tcs/fleet farm type stores and they do not have the same amount of protein or mineral yes they are cheap but did not supply daily requirements and the guys are right price jumped last year I don't have enough animals per pen to justify lick tanks but they are way more economical if used properly also note if cows do not have enough other nutrition the ywill drain a tank or tub this is a supplement.Sidebar for Knabe the way I feed this is required protein I have no bw problems on tubs nor have I noticed any at the larger stock farms around me including clubby limo herfs and the shorties       

 

[braunvieh]

Thank you everyone for your input. Our protein tubs went up from $65 to $105 so we are just trying to make sure we are making good choices.

 

[Jill]

We fed a good high quality tub 1 year (something from Nutrina, don't remember the name) and at the end of the year sat down and figured out the cost, we found out it was cheaper for us to just feed them a corn/soybean mixture, we are now using a Cargill  CAN 14% AP ( 3789 ) and feed 3-5 pounds per cow, it is more labor intensive and I know some of you don't like feeding cows, but we are much happier with the price, consumption and condition of the cows.  We keep a high quality mineral out year around regardless of what we feed.

 

[chambero]

We feed a corn-based or cottonseed-based cake.  This year it looks like we'll switch to cottonseed cake which is going to come out cheaper than the lower-protein corn cake. 

We've never messed with tubs, but those in our area that do say that you've got to have enough standing forage or hay to keep them full or they will eat you out of house and home.

 

[common sense]

Talk to a nutritionist.  I kind of like to steer clear of using my feed salesman as my nutritionist as he has a vested interest in selling me his products.  I would also recommend doing some research into the cheapest way to feed protein in the level that your animals need at this point in their gestation.  We could never pencil out the use of protein tubs. They just didn't make economical sense for us.  We used cubes at one point.  Great source of protein at a fairly reasonable cost.  You don't have to feed them every day either.  You can figure out how much they need on a weekly basis and divide that  out over two or three feedings if time is an issue for you. 

Iowa State University has an excellent ration program.  When our feed costs become a huge challenge we always go back to the computer to find our best alternatives.  We put a cow ration together one winter of ground alfalfa, stalk bales and a very very small amount of corn that kept our stock cows in great shape all winter.  I was amazed at how cheap that ration was to feed.  Sometimes what you don't think will work will actually balance out when you plug it into a ration program.

Mineral:  And I am sure this is a different issue with everyone depending on your location but all minerals were not created equal.  I am of the old school that you don't need to add sugar to mineral to get cows to eat it unless its something you need to get into their system at a fairly rapid rate, like high magnesium in our area just before you put them out on pasture.  If cows are needing mineral they will eat it no matter how you dress it up.  Some companies put so many additives in their mineral to make it more palatable that it jacks up the price and the cows eat it like it was Swiss chocolate.  I keep mineral in front of my cows at all times but my mineral program changes with the seasons for our area which in turn provides what they need for that particular time of year.  As the seasons change or the age of the grass changes you can see a change in their mineral/salt intake. 

I am by no means a nutritionist.  My husband could run circles around me in that arena.  My point is that sometimes we forget to look at all of the alternatives because we think we see the simplest answer (protein tubs).  Simpler is not always better especially when you look at the economics involved. 

 

[LazyGLowlines]

We used to put protein tubs out for all our cattle, and our vet told us that unless we're also feeding grain it was just very expensive fertilizer. So we only put them out for the show cattle since they're the only ones getting any grain. Our minerals come from the vet, too.  It's a special mix for our area here in the northwest.  We don't have (or don't know about) any mineral sales guys around here and we're not really in cattle country. We found that the cattle consume as much as they need. If the tub's been empty for awhile they'll go crazy over it when it gets filled, then taper off. 

 

[CAB]

 Very well said Juli and Jill. I was looking into ADM's new tubs last week @ $83 some cents the cost/cow/day was $.42. I can feed 4 lbs of a 14% complete ration for $.44 and see that they all eat and are feeling well every day. I have also said/asked B4 about your feed "salesman" scratching whose back first? It needs to make sense for "your "operation. You have to look @ what feedstuffs you are using and supplement according to what "you" need to balance out your feedstuffs. Brent

 

[DLD]

I'm a pretty firm believer in good quality tubs at this point, at least in my fall calving program.  I've fed (yes, and sold) the ADM tubs in the past, and a couple of years ago we calculated that it was just as economical to feed the complete tubs as to feed 2 lbs. a day of cubes plus a free choice high quality mineral.  I used the ADM tubs starting in September, and never had any problems with over consumption.  My cows bred back quicker, milked better, weaned bigger calves, and were just overall healthier and looked better.  I don't consider convenience to be a huge factor because I (or someone) see these cows everyday, but it does allow me to use a four wheeler sometimes instead of having to drive the much more expensive diesel pickup every day.

Last year I made the mistake of going without them - I fed 2.5 pounds of 20% cubes daily, free choice Moormans mineral, and free choice bermuda grass hay, and over half of my September calvers are going to be late November - December calvers this year.  I'll admit that I guess I should've tested my hay - it looked very good, but it seems that alot of last years hay around here wasn't as good as usual, something to do with the very wet year following so many very dry ones.

So this year I'm feeding the tubs again, and everything looks really good and the cows that have calved are cycling very well (we'll start breeding next week).  I have switched from the ADM's to Sweet Pro's though - they're costing noticeably less and seem to be working just as well. 

Admittedly, I've never tried feeding grain to cows - it's not really common practice around here, and it would require some investment in equipment and facilities that I don't currently have.  If those things are available to you though, that might work better for you.

Hay and protein cubes are all I use on my spring calvers, and that usually works plenty well enough for us.  I also have a Sweet Pro "Kalf Kandy" tub out for some spring born heifers on grass, and they seem to be doing really well on it, too.

 

[chambero]

I'll admit that I guess I should've tested my hay - it looked very good, but it seems that alot of last years hay around here wasn't as good as usual, something to do with the very wet year following so many very dry ones.

We saw the same thing last year in regard to forage/hay quality.  Everyone's (including ours) calf weights were really off this summer - in the ballpark of 75-100 lbs.  I don't know why that wet summer didn't help us more.  Our cows are being a little late to finish up calving this year also.

 

[M Bar]

I would assume you are on native grass and going to corn stalks.  With that in mind, I would say that you have changed the diet on your cows tremendously.  That is not meant to sound bad, it would just mean that your cows are adjusting to the change and maybe needing some supplemental protein, as said earlier, move the tubs away from the pond/water source.  If the tubs are only cooked, then it will help.  If you are using an intake modifier type from Purina, then consult your local dealer/rep.  Our cows are going through mineral as well, since we put them on milo stalks and took them off native grass.  They should slow down once their mineral balance is back in check.