Raising clubbys is inhumane

[reno1014]

Reno, It is fairly common knowledge that HW was quite a bit larger than the 92 lb listed BW. Give the breeder a call. He will tell you the truth.

In my opinion great guys dont let things like this slip through to the book.  If it is common knowledge then I would presume he is opening
himself up for trouble by knowledgeable gross neglegence.  I believe that was discussed in another post nonetheless.

 

[Dusty]

Stretching the truth or misrepresentation is so common in the clubby business that you really just have to come expect it. Calling someone for lying in the clubby business is like playing basketball with a 5 year old and calling him for double dribbling.  You just have to let some stuff slide.  You really kind of have to know who you can trust.  You just have to figure if they put 92 or whatever for BW that he is big and should only be used on mature cows that can have a big calf, cuz he's lible to throw a giant every now and then.  Calving ease and good club calf bull don't are two terms that don't often collide in the same sentence.

 

[CAB]

Reno, you lost a step there, I'm not going to name, names here, but you need to research who raised the bull, and call him personally. He is a good guy and will tell you the truth. That's why whether it's clubbie or purebred, it's good to know who and what you're dealing with. You'll have to do the research and footwork to be good @ matings in the long run. Asking the right people the right questions will get you a long ways. JMO.

 

[knabe]

would you prefer to see a z-score.

ditto SRU, i just thought i'd start with what a distribution looks like.

 

[Dean]

Time to give my opinion.
1. Inhumane 160 lb calf, yes.  But as was talked about earlier what condition was the cow in?  What are her normal birth weights over the years with different bulls.
2.  Lots of talk about the clubby breeders who say if it ain't a c section it isn't any good.  Come on how many would be in business even at $10,000 top calf if you kill all the cows.
3. Everyone can have problems with genetics.  We bought a saler bull one time, garenteed calving ease,  had 14 heifers and pulled all but one, it was a section.  Not the bulls fault it was hybed viger/ genetic on the heifers we were using.  He worked like he was suppose to on saler cows and heifers, but not on our cross heifers, the person who sold him showed us his calves the next year, after our wreck.
4.  Not everyone tells the truth,  i am finishing up calving 43 black and black white face heifers, bred to a calving ease angus bull.  The black calves are all fine, 65 - 70 pound calves that hit the ground running, but the white calves 6 have been pulled or one c-section.  Forgot to tell at the sale that the neighbors bull got in.  100- 120 lb. white calves are not calving ease angus.

 

[chambero]

You are very correct.  There is lot's of exageration both ways.  And breeding cattle is an inexact science with lots of variability.  Common sense goes a long way as with anything else.  Biggest one we've ever had was probably around 130 (weighed dead about 8 hours after it was pulled).  Meyer cow bred to a Chi-Angus bull we probably had 200 calves out of over teh years.  It just happened, no other reason.

I don't know of anyone that has had more than a handful of c-sections.  In my part of the world, mature cows run in pastures too big to be able to get to a vet if they go down calving.  I suspect that's the case in most of the country except maybe the midwest.

Time to give my opinion.
1. Inhumane 160 lb calf, yes.  But as was talked about earlier what condition was the cow in?  What are her normal birth weights over the years with different bulls.
2.  Lots of talk about the clubby breeders who say if it ain't a c section it isn't any good.  Come on how many would be in business even at $10,000 top calf if you kill all the cows.
3. Everyone can have problems with genetics.  We bought a saler bull one time, garenteed calving ease,  had 14 heifers and pulled all but one, it was a section.  Not the bulls fault it was hybed viger/ genetic on the heifers we were using.  He worked like he was suppose to on saler cows and heifers, but not on our cross heifers, the person who sold him showed us his calves the next year, after our wreck.
4.  Not everyone tells the truth,  i am finishing up calving 43 black and black white face heifers, bred to a calving ease angus bull.  The black calves are all fine, 65 - 70 pound calves that hit the ground running, but the white calves 6 have been pulled or one c-section.  Forgot to tell at the sale that the neighbors bull got in.  100- 120 lb. white calves are not calving ease angus.