RB EAGLE 239th

[RyanChandler]

Noticed Meadowlane has this bull on their sire page. I really like the way this bull looks. Are any breeders still using the RB sires? Where can I find some pics of daughters?  Bulls with this type of volume should be in huge demand!

 

[sjcattleco]

If I were to use any of those genetics  Eagle 148 would be the one I would use.

 

[Okotoks]

RB Eagle 239th is by RB Eagle 148th and a full brother to RB Eagle 255th.

 

[Woodland Farms Show Cattl]

I recently found 2 straws of rb eagle 148(pretty sure that's what it was, will have to check the straw again, I know it started with 14)  in my tank, what is it worth? Haven't personally seen any progeny to know what cows of mine to use him on.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Eagle 248 will be very hard to get semen on Leveldale owns it all-I do have some semen on ML War Eagle-a pretty cool Meadow Lane bull that Tammy Gottschalk bought and showed all over

 

[ML]

We bought 239 from Dale Rocker. We used him for several years and had a great set of females out of him. We also sold a lot of sons. He was a milk trait leader for a while and could really improve udders. We also used his sire, 148. All of the 148 line were muscle makers. Birth weight could be an issue, but usually is with muscle bulls. We have semen available at Meadow Lane.

 

[sue]

I saw  239 and 255 the same summer. I would use 239

 

[justintime]

Eagle 148th( sire of 239)  and his sire Byland Eagle F58 were both classic examples of bulls that arrived on the scene ahead of their time. By this, I mean they arrived at a time when there were different trends in the beef industry, and I don't think they received the appreciation they deserved at that time. If they were here now, I think they would be very popular indeed! IMO, both these sires are examples of true beef sires, that brought more than one good thing to the table. Eagle F58 was a calving ease sire and was a balanced trait leader for many years.  I think if you are keen on producing functional cattle, you need to be seeking out semen from F58 or 239. There were some other sons of F58 that bred very well as well. RB Eagle 172nd, came to Shamrock Shorthorns ( now dispersed) and he left a superb set of calves of both sexes. I still have a daughter of his that has bred extremely well here(Shamrock Lucy 68L).  I am flushing her again this spring, as she is getting some age, and I can't have too many daughters in my herd. I have attached a picture of her.

Looking back at the pedigree of Eagle 148th, I am kinda amazed at the amount of Canadian dual purpose blood that is in his pedigree through his dam. His dam was RB Julie, who was a daughter of Kilshannig Julie, a female I sold in a production sale in the 70s. She was sired  by HC Walking Tall, who was a 100% dual purpose bred bull. After selling Walking Tall to the Kilshannig herd, I went back and purchased all his first crop of heifer calves.  Her grand sire Ace of Diamonds was also 100% dual purpose , and was a son of Meadowbrook Prince 16th.
When the Rocker herd was dispersed, some of the best females were from the Julie cow family. Shadybrook, in Quebec, purchased a couple very good Julie females and I have always felt they were some of the best in their herd. I have purchased an excellent Julie cow from them and she has worked well here. I find all these cattle that go back to the Eagle lineage are usually very easy fleshing and functional.

 

[hamburgman]

Not meaning to hijack, but anybody have experience with Eagle 255th?

 

[Okotoks]

RB Eagle 172nd the bull that JIT mentions by Byland Eagle F58 was also a full brother to RB RED Eagle Y2K the bull we used and the sire Diamond Prophecy 21P.172nd was an extremely consistent producer and left a really nice group of daughters at Shamrock. Ralph Larson bought Red Eagle's dam in the Rocker Dispersal and also used another full brother in his herd YY Eagle 57P. Another full brother RB Eagle 226th is a herd sire at Byland. As well one of the full sisters by Byland Eagle F58, RB Ruby 174th was at K-Kim with her daughter RB Ruby 177th, one of K-Kim's donor cows.
One of our current herd sires Braebank Wentworth 3W has RB Eagle 255 on his top side in the 3rd generation.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

148 also went back to an almost fullblood maine-CHUCK O LUCKS REAL SILVER-as old wierd Harold Hoskins used to say-"the maine dual thing works". Rockers also used a pretty good red powerplant son,and had alot of daughters in the herd: JDS Fireman-who I think they got from Merle Welch. O0

 

[Duncraggan]

The sires pictured above are the type of herdsires I wish were running on my place.

I am aiming for that ham-shaped hindquarter like RB Eagle 255th's!

 

[sjcattleco]

148 also went back to an almost fullblood maine-CHUCK O LUCKS REAL SILVER-as old wierd Harold Hoskins used to say-"the maine dual thing works". Rockers also used a pretty good red powerplant son,and had alot of daughters in the herd: JDS Fireman-who I think they got from Merle Welch. O0

if this chuck o lucks is maine how is 148 listed as * free? He is no appendix / cross bred bull

 

[justintime]

148 also went back to an almost fullblood maine-CHUCK O LUCKS REAL SILVER-as old wierd Harold Hoskins used to say-"the maine dual thing works". Rockers also used a pretty good red powerplant son,and had alot of daughters in the herd: JDS Fireman-who I think they got from Merle Welch. O0

if this chuck o lucks is maine how is 148 listed as * free? He is no appendix / cross bred bull

There was lots of talk about Real Silver being something other than what his pedigree showed. I don't ever remember there being any proof as DNA parentage testing was not around yet in those days. I think I heard more comments that he was probably a Deerpark Improver son, than I ever did that he had Maine breeding. Personally, I think these stories get started when a bull appears to breed better than what his pedigree suggests that he should. Real Silver did breed pretty well for that era, and this could have been simply because the genetics he inherited lined up properly. It always seems that you hear these stories about the good breeding bulls, and you never hear much about bulls that never set the world on fire.

I am pretty certain you can dig up this stuff on bulls in most any breed. At least I have heard lots of this.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I ran across a picture of him around 1992-and he looked like he had maine to me:like Vistas Sentra (AKA GR EXclusive at Harold Hoskins)-so I asked Dugdale, and Ed Grathwohl who both thought so-Ed Grathwohl had seen him in Colrado or somwhere as a calf-and knew the owners used Dollar 2 etc-he did too. Years later I asked Rocker at Louisvillebecause I wanted to find semen on him-and he said basically the same thing-and had 1 straw left-which is now for sale by Aegerter-thats the info I have O0

 

[Dale]

Was there not another Packard bull bred about like Real Silver?  Both had extra thickness, as I recall.  Dad may have seen them in Denver.

 

[RyanChandler]

148 also went back to an almost fullblood maine-CHUCK O LUCKS REAL SILVER-as old wierd Harold Hoskins used to say-"the maine dual thing works". Rockers also used a pretty good red powerplant son,and had alot of daughters in the herd: JDS Fireman-who I think they got from Merle Welch. O0

if this chuck o lucks is maine how is 148 listed as * free? He is no appendix / cross bred bull

Appendix and crossbred aren't the same. Stop trying to confuse people.

 

[justintime]

Was there not another Packard bull bred about like Real Silver?  Both had extra thickness, as I recall.  Dad may have seen them in Denver.

You are right, there was two bulls that went to Denver the same year. They were Chuck O Luck Real Silver and Chuck O Luck Royal Silver. Real Silver was polled and Royal Silver was horned. They created quite a stir at Denver as they were very thick and quite moderate framed for that day.  The Chuck o Luck herd was owned by Mark Tracy, Boulder, Co and was a different outfit than the Packard herd, which was located close to there. Mark Tracy was a junior member when the herd was started, and his father was a vet at Boulder, Co. Mark went on to Vet college and the herd was eventually dispersed. I have lost track of Mark since then.

I really never had a huge problem with the pedigree of Real Silver, as he was sired by Chuck O Luck Silver Bar who was sired by Shadybrook Goliath 68th.  I always heard that Goliath 68th was a impressive bull from the 50s that had tremendous thickness.Goliath 68th was owned by an AI company but his semen was not used much in purebred herds because he was considered too big for the day.  I also heard that the Shadybrook herd in Minnesota was a herd of bigger than normal animals for that era and they never gained much popularity because the trend of the day was for belt buckle framed cattle.
The dam of Real Silver was a female named Edgecreek Kinnaber Cathy by Kinnaber Leader 9th. I remember this female very well, as she was an absolute beautiful female and would be crazy good today if she was alive. The Edgecreek herd was owned by two bachelor brothers here in Saskatchewan, and my dad and I happened to stumble onto this herd while visiting another breeder who lived about 10 miles from them. This breeder told us of a near by herd that had some good females and that we should stop by and see it. Since we would be travelling very close to their farm on our way home, we decided to stop in for a visit. Neither my dad or myself had ever heard of the Fould Brothers, and dad had been in the Shorthorn business all of his life.
I think the Edgecreek herd possibly left the biggest impression on me of any herd I have seen in my lifetime. It was probably the best set of females I have ever set my eyes on. The Fould brothers were elderly and they told us that they were thinking of retiring and would sell the cows. The cow herd looked like you had cloned a near perfect female. Every cow looked the same with moderate frames, tremendous thickness and perfect udders. They wanted $500 per cow if we took the entire herd. I was just heading off to college and we decided that another 45 cows would be too much to add to our herd when I was going to be away for a few years. I have often thought that this was probably one of the poorest decisions I have ever made in my lifetime. I found out later that this herd was sold to a commercial producer who turned Hereford bulls out with them.
So the fact that Real Silver was so thick made does not strike me as being unusual as he had lots of thickness bred into his pedigree. Personally, I think this pedigree was believable and probably correct and that he was a purebred Shorthorn, while I know that many others felt he was a fake.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I dont think he was fake at all: just ahead of his time.I loved the way he looked-and would use him in a minute-But anyone who believes every pedigree out of the 80s and nineties is naive-plain and simple-I started showing Scotch Shorts with Scotsdale and Aberfeldy blood in the 60s-and if I could have afforded an Oakwood female-from my idol CB Teegarden I would have beat the professional 45 year old farmers at age 10 instead of age 14-Either way: I never lost interest and tried to see as many cattle as I could-and the photo of Real Silver is very clear in my mind-he looked like a 3/4 and was sized like one too. O0

 

[justintime]

I dont think he was fake at all: just ahead of his time.I loved the way he looked-and would use him in a minute-But anyone who believes every pedigree out of the 80s and nineties is naive-plain and simple-I started showing Scotch Shorts with Scotsdale and Aberfeldy blood in the 60s-and if I could have afforded an Oakwood female-from my idol CB Teegarden I would have beat the professional 45 year old farmers at age 10 instead of age 14-Either way: I never lost interest and tried to see as many cattle as I could-and the photo of Real Silver is very clear in my mind-he looked like a 3/4 and was sized like one too. O0

I agree 100% with you regarding pedigrees in the past. There were lots and lots of messed up pedigrees. Some planned, some not planned. When I was elected to the Canadian Shorthorn Association board of directors in the early 80s, I remember visiting with the Manager of the Canadian Livestock Records Corp. and he said that they suspected that a minimum of 10% of the pedigrees were wrong. After that discussion, I was speaking with Pete Swaffer, who was the Executive Secretary of the American Shorthorn Association and I asked him his thoughts on this topic. He said that he thought 10% was probably too low.  I think it is actually much better today, as we have to DNA every sire used ( at least here in Canada) and every donor female and ET calf born ( again here in Canada).  A few years ago, I flushed a good cow I had purchased from a reputable herd, and when the DNA was done on her, she did not parentage test to her sire, who was in the DNA system. We were never able to find her exact sire, and I ended up dumping the embryos.  I am pretty certain that this was an honest mistake by the breeder, and her dam was most likely bred to a bull who was not ever DNA'd.
I also remember talking with the Manager of the Ohio State Blood Typing Lab, who was responsible for most of the breed testing prior to DNA analysis. This discussion was at the dispersal of the Graham Land and Cattle herd in Minnesota. He told me that he had identified 8  fullblood Maine Anjou sires that blood typed within the parameters of being purebred Shorthorn. He also said that these 8 MA sires were much closer to Shorthorn blood type than any of the Irish Shorthorn cattle entering North America at that time. This is one of the main reasons that the American Shorthorn Association defeated the acceptance of the Irish cattle into their herd book on two different occasions. I am also pretty sure that if a person could collect samples from animals from any or all breeds in the 20s and 30s, and compare their genetic make-up with today's cattle in each breed, there would be very little similarity. All breeds have changed over time.

I strongly believe that sometimes a person can know too much about pedigrees, as I have to shake my head when I see how stringent some people are in only using non appendix sires in their herds. I had interest in one of my bulls at a show a few years ago, and would probably have sold him but they found out that he had an asterisk on his pedigree 3 generations back. They told me they would not use anything but a so called purebred bull in their herd, and then went and purchased another bull at the show. Yes, the bull they purchased did not have any asterisks in his pedigree, but I happen to know enough about the genetics in his background, to know that my bull was probably 20% more pure than the one they purchased.  This is another topic for another time, as it has noting to do with Eagle 239, but all I will say is that I am always amazed at the " selective" eye sight many breeders have when it comes to the bloodlines they will use.