Red angus-black angus

[aj]

Is there a chance that the two associations would join together as one organization........100 years from now?

 

[cowman 52]

When god comes home

 

[aj]

I remember when the horned herfords and the polled herfords had to different assc's. There were almost hatreds between the breeders. And then as generations of PEOPLE evolved they merged.

 

[Freddy]

I  remember the early day's of polled Herefords ,they were bad ,kind of like the black Charolais ..... But the POLLED HEREFORD'S had something to offer that the horn's didn't have ....  The red ANGUS would be crazy to bring the mixed up bloodlines and genetic defects of the BLACK'S into their pedigrees , maybe in a 100 years, if our country survives bringing one black into our USA  program ....

 

[RyanChandler]

^ Ignorance at its finest.

 

[aj]

The Red Angus are allready bringing in the black genetics. It takes em at least 2 generations to get out of the black condition. The red angus already have a line of dd genetic defects through a black Gardiner bull. In theory.....what would happen if the black assc said........nothing wrong with red cattle, lets register the reds. I think the ONLY reason the Angus assc. frowned hard on the reds cause it was popping up out of no where. Now they have a simple test to test for recessive conditions. There is no SCARY red gene out there anymore.

 

[aj]

I guess one hang is......the Red Angus has an appendix grade up program......and the Black angus doesn't. What would happen if the Red Angus said........hey we accept black angus......at a cheaper rate....

 

[Show Dad]

It will take place the day the AAA can't pay their bills.....
SD
<alien>

 

[cowman 52]

I guess one hang is......the Red Angus has an appendix grade up program......and the Black angus doesn't. What would happen if the Red Angus said........hey we accept black angus......at a cheaper rate....

How do you figure?  The whole herd reporting deal is nothing but a way to generate income to Denton Texas and nothing more.  The reports, records and such are nothing more than a way to have employees having a job shuffling paper, and not one bit about the cattle getting better or helping breeders sell their cattle. 
The angus assoc wants nothing but reg and transfer fees without a heck of a lot of grief unless you use one of those questionable bulls then you dna to look for a defect. 
Some red breeders have said to heck with the papers, I don't get enough return on the investment,  so tell me again how the black assoc needs the trouble.

 

[Freddy]

I CAN  THINK OF THREE COMMERCIAL BREEDERS in our area that 10-15 years ago had Herford or Saler base cow herds and now are selling Angus bulls for more than registered breeders and no dues to pay, no registrations and no testing unless they want to ....  Also with the ANGUS  no whole herd registry, you forgot you get no EPD'S until you register them , what's so great about that , maybe not anything ... Those commercial Angus bull producers
don't worry about their EPD'S ....

 

[cowboy_nyk]

FYI in Canada we are in the same association.

 

[cbcr]

Quote from Cowman52:

The whole herd reporting deal is nothing but a way to generate income to Denton Texas and nothing more.  The reports, records and such are nothing more than a way to have employees having a job shuffling paper, and not one bit about the cattle getting better or helping breeders sell their cattle.

Most of the breed associations have gone to some form of whole herd reporting, Hereford, Simmental, Gelbvieh, Shorthorn, Limousin, and others.

These whole herd reporting programs charge the breeders various rates but all of them charge a fee for each breeding age female and then gives the breeder a free registration and transfer.  This is something that really is all about the money.  Why not lower the rate and then offer the breeders to register any calves they want to for half price.

As an example if an association charges $15 per cow for enrollment in their whole herd reporting program.  On a 100 cow herd, that is $1,500.  Why can't they lower the cost to $10 per cow and then let producers register any calf for $5 each.  So on the 100 cow herd it would initially cost the producer $1,000, then if he were to register half of the calves (50 head) at the $5 rate he would pay $250.  This would put $250 in his pocket that he could use.


Quote from Freddy:

I CAN  THINK OF THREE COMMERCIAL BREEDERS in our area that 10-15 years ago had Herford or Saler base cow herds and now are selling Angus bulls for more than registered breeders and no dues to pay, no registrations and no testing unless they want to ....  Also with the ANGUS  no whole herd registry, you forgot you get no EPD'S until you register them , what's so great about that , maybe not anything ... Those commercial Angus bull producers don't worry about their EPD'S ....

EPDs are a TOOL!!!  EPDs are only as accurate as the information that is reported.  You didn't say how these producers were raising their bulls, but again, when many bull buyers go out to look at bulls they want to see those big yearling weights, but at what cost to the health of the bull?  When bulls are pushed for those big yearling wights it does impact their health, their feet and legs and many times they are too fat.  And too, there are still many producers that so not understand EPDs.  They may not say so when looking at a group of bulls, and some of this is because they do not want to look like they are stupid.  And as the old saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and everybody wants a good looking bull.

 

[BTDT]

I highly doubt if the two associations ever merge.  The red angus already are working with the simmi's and a few other breeds.  The two associations seem to have different goals and projections of which are not mutually exclusive (meaning the two ideas probably would not get along well together). 
What's wrong with two associations? 

 

[DSCSD]

Raised in a well known Angus herd of the early 80s being around Angus cattle and people my entire life and working for a well known Angus herd that's 120 years old now.... anyone who knows Black Angus breeders should know they are way to proud of their black cattle to ever allow any color in.... unless the retards that have messed up the AAA and made it total chaos allow it! Then the AAA will just be another crossed up breed that has 2 different shows in 1.... not that its not already crossed!

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Here in Brazil both coats are registered at same register. Also in Argentina and Uruguay.
Think that only Americans have this apart breed.....
Also here a 7/8 blood bull is sold as purebred......Brazilian Aberdeen Angus makes lots of money salling lots of steers with balls!
On the end of road...only money is important!

 

[aj]

It matters not to me. I am fascinated how the Red Angus breed started as strictly a producers bunch......keeping the show ring non sense out of the gene pool. I like them seperate as associations.......but again they sure in theory could merge. If for some reason......the beef industry decides that red hides are preferal to black hides.....it might be.....100 years from now.....maybe the worm would turn.

 

[Show Dad]

....anyone who knows Black Angus breeders should know they are way to proud of their black cattle to ever allow any color in....

Boy, they sure allow a lot of white......Just say'n
SD
<alien>

 

[DSCSD]

They do.... I know where I am that's the first thing to get cut or culled... unless the female is just really good or a cow family he doesn't have much of anymore.... but that's far and few between.... Im still curious as to when the AAA is going to start testing for Ebola!

 

[Freddy]

You know it is sure nice to blame the show ring for all our problems....MONEY is the problem and people follow where it is or think it is ....  ONE also thing to look at in last 40-50- years cattle have went from 5 frame to 8 frame and dropping fast ........the other way ....

 

[aj]

I saw in the Red Angus journal that Harold Bretz was brought on to the assn.. I can't remember title now.