Replacements Heifers from these Angus cows

[Warrior10]

We run a pretty strong commercial Angus herd, I'm looking to tap into it slightly for replacement heifers. I have been doing a lot of reading and searching on the topic but just want some fresh ideas. I'm pretty much open to all suggestions but mainly looking the Simmy, Maine, Char route. Here is a picture that gives an idea of what I'd be working with. Most of them could use hair, and some guts and power. Most are medium framed. Thanks for the suggestions in advance.

 

[Skibinski Farms]

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/GCC_Whizard.php.... I haven't used him but going to try it him on my commercial simmxangus cows. I have heard some good things about him. Also Limestone Trifecta makes some pretty fancy heifers. http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/LimestoneTrifecta.php

 

[leanbeef]

I don't know too much specifically about Maines or Charolais, but I think you'd like the F1s out of any of those crosses as long as you were smart about the sire selection within the breed. I will say that I have a pretty sting opinion about which breed has the most potential to make the best females, and that's gonna be Simmental.

I'm sure you can find genetic lines within either the Maine or Charolais gene pool that will be more maternal than others, but in general as a breed, the Simmental crosses are gonna make heavier milking, more productive replacements. The 734 bloodlines are gonna work best on smaller framed, easy fleshing cattle with a lot of body. We've had some Machos and have one 1/2 blood daughter in our herd, and she does a real good job. Those cattle can get a little big & hard for my tastes, but that's usually when you get closer to the purebred % or use em on big framed, harder doing types. I don't have a lot of experience with many other 734 sons because their numbers aren't good enough for what we do, but I think some of those are interesting, especially if they're out of a good cow family.

There's an old school Simmie bull that you see in a LOT of pedigrees, and the reason is because the cows are good...Nichols Legacy G151. Our best cows are easily the Legacys, and we probably have more of them than any other bull right now. The purebred guys aren't using him anymore because there's always something "better" coming along, but he's a proven, smart choice. I've also seen some of them that are way too tall and narrow to work, so don't use him on frail, shallow, narrow or light boned cows and expect him to change them. But use him on deep bodied, fleshy cows with plenty of bone and then keep every heifer you get! Legacy is also the sire of Dream On and Shear Force, so start looking at pedigrees, and it doesn't take long to start to realize his influence. Not to mention how many cattle you find out of other sides and Legacy daughters...that's where I like to see him most.

If you truly believe every generation should be better than the one before, look for some Ellingson Legacy M221 semen. They also call that bull "Olie" and ABS carries him, but he's dead now and there's still some demand, and I think the semen went up...I've heard $50. You might find some for less if you know people, and there are some sons out there, too. We're using one called 3C Southbound that was the Lot 1 bull at Christensen's sale in 2010, and he's doing a real good job...we're very pleased.

Upgrade is the most popular "Olie" son, and he'll prob add more power and look than most of the others. We're waiting to see how his daughters perform, and when I say "we" I mean we the breed. We at home just had our first one born this year, but we'll use him more and I'm flushing a 1/2 blood cow to him this spring. Be mindful of structure...they can get a little straight, but the good ones are pretty good.
They're topping a lot of bull sales these days...I think he'll be the next Dream On for the Simmie deal.

 

[leanbeef]

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/GCC_Whizard.php.... I haven't used him but going to try it him on my commercial simmxangus cows. I have heard some good things about him. Also Limestone Trifecta makes some pretty fancy heifers. http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/LimestoneTrifecta.php

I do like both of those bulls, but I haven't seen calves by either one. I really like the Trifecta deal in his YouTube video. He's only 1/4 Simmental, and Whizard is 1/2 blood...I think both of them are better suited for crossbred cows than they are for straight Angus.

 

[firesweepranch]

We have a half blood Upgrade in production, and she is doing a fantastic job! I agree, I think he will be the next Dream On, he already has lots of sons out there in production doing some great things!

 

[Skibinski Farms]

very true, I guess I meant to ask this in my first reply Chris, are you wanting to produce clubbies out of these replacements? I seen your post about mommas boy, he might do the trick, I have seen a couple out of him they were nice, but a little bit bigger framed than I would like. And maybe thats what you need since your cows are smaller framed?

http://www.cattlevisions.com/Simmental/Uproar.php
https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/animalSearch%2CAnimalSearch.vm/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction;jsessionid=78E1A1A175F8953988F7BFF18D692033.tomcat1A
I seen Card Uproar 49y in denver this year, I guess I totally forgot all about him, he looks like he could do the trick, being out of Upgrade and Black Jade on the bottom side. From what I remember he had stood on a good foot and balanced up real nice and had plenty of power to produce those clubby mommas. but thats my opinion, someone else might think different on him if they saw him in denver this year. He has plenty of guts too...

 

[Warrior10]

very true, I guess I meant to ask this in my first reply Chris, are you wanting to produce clubbies out of these replacements? I seen your post about mommas boy, he might do the trick, I have seen a couple out of him they were nice, but a little bit bigger framed than I would like. And maybe thats what you need since your cows are smaller framed?

http://www.cattlevisions.com/Simmental/Uproar.php
https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/animalSearch%2CAnimalSearch.vm/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction;jsessionid=78E1A1A175F8953988F7BFF18D692033.tomcat1A
I seen Card Uproar 49y in denver this year, I guess I totally forgot all about him, he looks like he could do the trick, being out of Upgrade and Black Jade on the bottom side. From what I remember he had stood on a good foot and balanced up real nice and had plenty of power to produce those clubby mommas. but thats my opinion, someone else might think different on him if they saw him in denver this year. He has plenty of guts too...

Upgrade has been towards the top of my list and uproar seems like a great looking son, I am going to compare them EPD wise. Yes ideally these maternal replacement heifers would then be bred clubby.

 

[Warrior10]

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/GCC_Whizard.php.... I haven't used him but going to try it him on my commercial simmxangus cows. I have heard some good things about him. Also Limestone Trifecta makes some pretty fancy heifers. http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/LimestoneTrifecta.php

I do like both of those bulls, but I haven't seen calves by either one. I really like the Trifecta deal in his YouTube video. He's only 1/4 Simmental, and Whizard is 1/2 blood...I think both of them are better suited for crossbreed cows than they are for straight Angus.

The reserve champion pen of 3 at the Nebraska Cattleman's Classic had at least two, maybe 3, Trifectas in it. Man were they cool..deep bodied and flanked, sound as a cat and hardly any leather up front.

 

[Circus Road]

As far as Maines go I would look at Strictly Business or one of his sons like Nuttin Butt Business or Ground Zero. I have seen several daughters of SB and they are very good cows. We plan on breeding to him this spring for replacements. The simmi side of things we have gotten along well with Meyer 734 sons like Sturdy and Picaso for PB sons. My favorite two sons of his are 3D and 3C Klikker. We have females out of both and they are very good cows for us. The Charolais bulls that I have dealt with are Smoke Signal and Yellow Jacket. Both need to be used on angus that have some middle to them (depth of rib) but do make some nice females. Front 1/3 of the Smoke Signal females are super nice.

 

[leanbeef]

We have a half blood Upgrade in production, and she is doing a fantastic job! I agree, I think he will be the next Dream On, he already has lots of sons out there in production doing some great things!

I'm glad to hear about an Upgrade daughter that's doing a good job. I bred a couple heavy milking cows to him last spring that could handle the hit on milk EPD, and we plan to use him more this year now that his milk numbers have recovered. I assumed AND HOPED that his new number was based on his first daughters not embarrassing themselves!

 

[firesweepranch]

We are pleased with our Upgrade dam. Attached is a pic of her in production, and a rear shot of her and her calf, there about 90 days old. His sire is CCR Force that BBSF on here owns (and sells semen on). As long as this guy tests clean (Upgrade dam is half Angus and NH positive), he will stay a bull. We feel he offers a lot for a 3/4 blood.
Like I said, we love our Upgrades. We have a yearling heifer 3/4 blood that will be kept also if she is as good as her half sister. They make really nice females.

 

[Barry Farms]

We are pleased with our Upgrade dam. Attached is a pic of her in production, and a rear shot of her and her calf, there about 90 days old. His sire is CCR Force that BBSF on here owns (and sells semen on). As long as this guy tests clean (Upgrade dam is half Angus and NH positive), he will stay a bull. We feel he offers a lot for a 3/4 blood.
Like I said, we love our Upgrades. We have a yearling heifer 3/4 blood that will be kept also if she is as good as her half sister. They make really nice females.

What is NH?

 

[firesweepranch]

NH is found in Angus blood cattle. I think CA Future Direction is the bull that started it all. Here is the info on the Angus web site....
NH was recognized as a genetic defect on June 12, 2009. Calves that are carried are born near term and may have 25-35 pound birth weights. Some evidence also points toward possible early abortions due to the defect. The cranium is markedly enlarged (volleyball to basketball sized). The bones of the skull are malformed and appear as loosely organized bony plates that fall apart when the cavity is opened. The cranial cavity is filled with fluid and no recognizable brain tissue is evident. The spinal canal is also dilated and no observable spinal tissue is found.
Kind of like Th and Pha, you just have to manage it.

 

[T-Majic]

I may be behind the times but I got some Macho and DO to use this year on commercial angus cows to get replacements.  DO obviously has been heavily used but there must be a reason. I would also look at Felt Next big thing and also Rave Defiant owned by Felt.  I have a Defiant heifer out of a DO cow that I think is gonna make great cow and have seen other defiant daughters at Felts and they look pretty good. He is only a half blood.

 

[Barry Farms]

Line bred meyer 734 son, for $30 but he might pass on socks which not everybody likes (sadly) seems to be heavier muscled than 734 too which will help in making your winning show steer.
http://bullbarn.com/simmepd.asp?ID=582

on another note NH seems to be terrible, much like TH and PHA I think it would be easier to get rid of it if the breed associations would outlaw registration of carrier animals.

 

[goodnight]

NH is found in Angus blood cattle. I think CA Future Direction is the bull that started it all. Here is the info on the Angus web site....
NH was recognized as a genetic defect on June 12, 2009. Calves that are carried are born near term and may have 25-35 pound birth weights. Some evidence also points toward possible early abortions due to the defect. The cranium is markedly enlarged (volleyball to basketball sized). The bones of the skull are malformed and appear as loosely organized bony plates that fall apart when the cavity is opened. The cranial cavity is filled with fluid and no recognizable brain tissue is evident. The spinal canal is also dilated and no observable spinal tissue is found.
Kind of like Th and Pha, you just have to manage it.

NH is believed to have started with GAR Precision 1680, the daddy of FD. Not being technical, but wanted to make sure that all 1680 descendants should be tested for AM and NH.

 

[Till-Hill]

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/GCC_Whizard.php.... I haven't used him but going to try it him on my commercial simmxangus cows. I have heard some good things about him. Also Limestone Trifecta makes some pretty fancy heifers. http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/LimestoneTrifecta.php

I do like both of those bulls, but I haven't seen calves by either one. I really like the Trifecta deal in his YouTube video. He's only 1/4 Simmental, and Whizard is 1/2 blood...I think both of them are better suited for crossbreed cows than they are for straight Angus.

The reserve champion pen of 3 at the Nebraska Cattleman's Classic had at least two, maybe 3, Trifectas in it. Man were they cool..deep bodied and flanked, sound as a cat and hardly any leather up front.

Are you talking pen of 3 heifers or bulls because Trifecta only has 2 registered bull calves and 10 heifer calves? Lauren Lindeland has 5 ET heifers all born the same day and another one born couple weeks later according to ASA website. Or maybe they don't have to be registered to show in that deal?  I have 2 of the calves registered and I have been wondering where all these Trifecta calves are at. I like mine but he does cut the legs off them. Both are a tick edgey and both are out of our easiest going cows that always have the sweetheart calves. Planning on using up the semen I have on hand and trying out the son of him I kept back.

 

[firesweepranch]

NH is found in Angus blood cattle. I think CA Future Direction is the bull that started it all. Here is the info on the Angus web site....
NH was recognized as a genetic defect on June 12, 2009. Calves that are carried are born near term and may have 25-35 pound birth weights. Some evidence also points toward possible early abortions due to the defect. The cranium is markedly enlarged (volleyball to basketball sized). The bones of the skull are malformed and appear as loosely organized bony plates that fall apart when the cavity is opened. The cranial cavity is filled with fluid and no recognizable brain tissue is evident. The spinal canal is also dilated and no observable spinal tissue is found.
Kind of like Th and Pha, you just have to manage it.

NH is believed to have started with GAR Precision 1680, the daddy of FD. Not being technical, but wanted to make sure that all 1680 descendants should be tested for AM and NH.

Thanks for the clarification. I am not that familiar with the Angus side, unless it is in our pedigrees and even then my knowledge is limited!
I disagree with not allowing animals to be registered if they are a carrier. You just have be diligent and test all offspring. If her bull calf is dirty, he gets cut. Simple as that. I would not sell an animal out of this cow unless it was tested and the carrier status known, period. She was not tested when we bought her (though we were told she was and the tests had not come back in yet). We knew we were taking a chance when we bought her, but like I said I can manage it. I do think if a bull is dirty, it should only be allowed papers if it is cut (so kids can show as a breed steer). Bulls have a bigger impact on population, thus spreading the defect more. I think the Simmental organization has a good hold on the genetic disorders that are out there, and do a great job of keeping people informed. Just my humble opinion!

 

[leanbeef]

I agree! ASA's TraitTrac system makes things a LOT easier. I don't know if it's a 100% guarantee that an animal's status might not be what it says, but it helps, and I do trust it quite a bit based on the genetic defects we know about. Because we've always had an open herd book, we HAVE to be informed, mindful, and diligent about genetic defects. Our breed is susceptible to ALL of them, and I think it's short-sighted and stupid for breeders to put their heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist.

You don't have to test an animal that may be a carrier to get papers on that animal, but the association will not issue registration on the progeny of a potential carrier until the status of the parent is known. In other words, if you want to register offspring, you have to test the parent and at least know the status. I support the rule...how are we supposed to manage something when we don't know what's there to manage?

It would be nice to live in a world with no genetic defects or abnormalities, but that's not the world we live in.

 

[goodnight]

NH is found in Angus blood cattle. I think CA Future Direction is the bull that started it all. Here is the info on the Angus web site....
NH was recognized as a genetic defect on June 12, 2009. Calves that are carried are born near term and may have 25-35 pound birth weights. Some evidence also points toward possible early abortions due to the defect. The cranium is markedly enlarged (volleyball to basketball sized). The bones of the skull are malformed and appear as loosely organized bony plates that fall apart when the cavity is opened. The cranial cavity is filled with fluid and no recognizable brain tissue is evident. The spinal canal is also dilated and no observable spinal tissue is found.
Kind of like Th and Pha, you just have to manage it.

NH is believed to have started with GAR Precision 1680, the daddy of FD. Not being technical, but wanted to make sure that all 1680 descendants should be tested for AM and NH.

Thanks for the clarification. I am not that familiar with the Angus side, unless it is in our pedigrees and even then my knowledge is limited!
I disagree with not allowing animals to be registered if they are a carrier. You just have be diligent and test all offspring. If her bull calf is dirty, he gets cut. Simple as that. I would not sell an animal out of this cow unless it was tested and the carrier status known, period. She was not tested when we bought her (though we were told she was and the tests had not come back in yet). We knew we were taking a chance when we bought her, but like I said I can manage it. I do think if a bull is dirty, it should only be allowed papers if it is cut (so kids can show as a breed steer). Bulls have a bigger impact on population, thus spreading the defect more. I think the Simmental organization has a good hold on the genetic disorders that are out there, and do a great job of keeping people informed. Just my humble opinion!

The AAA allows registration of carrier females, but they must be tested. Bulls with carriers in the pedigree have to be tested clean, or else they are not eligible for registration. When AM and NH first came on the scene, the AAA had a rule that gave a sunset for registration of potential carriers, but did not require testing. Then, a loophole was found (or created) which said that if the ancestors were not tested, then the resulting progeny were eligible for registration. I have no reasonable explanation for why this rule and loophole was present. The rule was changed last fall to allow registration, but with a test for females and a clean test for bulls. I think this is the correct rule. There were a lot of carrier donors that I wanted to try to acquire (including GAR Precision 2536), but until the rule was modified it would have been dicey on how to handle the calves. Now, we let the public know by a notation on the certificate, and they can choose to use the genetics or not. I, personally, never knew what the big deal was with the rule making, as breeding around it is something we as animal breeders have done for generations. As long as I know what I have got, then I can deal with it. I have two carriers left, and they are great little mothers to some nice ET calves.