Retaining Cell Lines??

[Belties R Us]

Just saw in a sale footnote that a producer is retaining two flushes and the rights to all cell lines and was curious what exactly it means? Does that mean I can't clone her or any of her offspring? What exactly does it prohibit? TIA!!

 

[BTDT]

I am not sure it prohibits anything, but the seller of the animal is reserving the right to clone any and all animals from that "cell line", meaning (at least scientifically) that they can clone any offspring from that animal on down the line. 
Example - You pay $10,000 for a heifer.  You work hard, take her to 20 shows and win all of them and she actually has a calf.  The seller of the heifer can come to you and get DNA on her and her calf and clone them. So all your hard work just got them a bunch of publicity so they can create some more of the heifer and sell them for big money.  And you did all the work!

As you can tell, I am NOT a fan of sellers retaining flushing, cloning or cell rights. 

 

[GoWyo]

You also need clarification whether they are retaining exclusive rights to clone, which means you cannot clone the particular animal, or whether they are basically retaining a right to clone and you can also clone that animal.

 

[Bradenh]

The term of the seller having "exclusive rights" to anything would go out the window when I wrote the check. "Rights"- sure that can be worked on but exclusive rights is just idiotic, when you purchase that animal you are buying your own rights to those eggs, cells, whatever the case is

 

[Belties R Us]

Thanks everyone for your responses!! I also thought it was very vague. And they retained 2 flushes and cell rights to every animal in their sale. I can understand the best one or two but it seems silly to keep them on all. I am not interested in purchasing any because I want to own my animals outright and I am sure others feel the same way. Just wanted to clarify the cell rights because I haven't heard of that before. Thanks again for the responses.

 

[RyanChandler]

In the mongrel cattle world of no-documentation, do you really think there aren't people taking whatever tissue sample is required to clone, PRIOR to the sale, regardless what the terms say in the sale?

 

[Belties R Us]

In the mongrel cattle world of no-documentation, do you really think there aren't people taking whatever tissue sample is required to clone, PRIOR to the sale, regardless what the terms say in the sale?

This is a good point! To be honest, I am far less concerned about them cloning the specific animal, as I am worried about them cloning any of her offspring on down the line.

 

[DLD]

I really don't believe that the term "cell line" means that includes any offspring of the animal in question.  I've always heard it said that the first step in cloning is to establish a cell line from the original animal to be cloned.  That said, I'm also put off by sales that retain cloning and flush rights on every female sold.  Not to say I'd never buy one under those conditions, but it would seriously affect what I'd pay, especially for a really high quality one that would have greater odds of it happening.

 

[afhm]

Thanks everyone for your responses!! I also thought it was very vague. And they retained 2 flushes and cell rights to every animal in their sale. I can understand the best one or two but it seems silly to keep them on all. I am not interested in purchasing any because I want to own my animals outright and I am sure others feel the same way. Just wanted to clarify the cell rights because I haven't heard of that before. Thanks again for the responses.

That tells me either 1. They're greedy (want the cake and eat it too) or 2. they really don't know which one the best ones are so just keep a piece of all of them hoping the buyers hit it big with one of them and they can capitalize on it afterwards.  I've seen some sales where the sellers retain the right to purchase 1 or 2 flushes on a or even all females in a sale for a set amount which is something I would be more open to.

 

[Duncraggan]

My feeling is that they are only after a higher price by stating that!  Any good breeder knows which are his best cattle and will have sufficient (better) progeny/family to continue the line.

It is a marketing ploy, don't be part of it!

 

[AAOK]

All the more reason to Breed & Show your own !

 

[Tallcool1]

All the more reason to Breed & Show your own !

Some of us have no desire to start a program.  We just want to show.  We don't have the land, time, resources, or desire to raise them.

 

[BroncoFan]

I wouldn't buy any cattle that has that many stipulations. If I'm buying, I'm buying all or none of a heifer.  I don't even like it when a seller retains the right to a flush. Not every cow is the same after getting flushed.  Some just dont bounce back and breed up. Only 3 months out of every year my cows are not pregnant and those 3 months aren't the time for me to be flushing because my cows are nursing and getting ready to be bred again. The only time I would flush anything is if I have a great older cow that just come up open.

 

[BroncoFan]

Here's a scenario: what if person A made all thoughs stipulations and sold to Person B. Then person B does a lot of winning with the heifer. Well person B never planned to keep the heifer because they just wanted anither animal to show. Well they go to sell the heifer to person C and tells them about the stipulations from person A. Person C thinks its ridiculous and doesn't buy the heifer. So Person B not wanting to keep her doesn't tell person D about the stipulations. So now what happens when Person A wants to flush the heifer. Person D is going to tell person A to pound sand.

 

[GoWyo]

Person D might be what is called a "bona fide purchaser" taking ownership without knowledge and therefore free and clear of claims for flush by Person A.  However, Person B might be on the hook for damages for due to the cow being alive, but inaccessible.  How many years did Person A retain the right to flush?  Does the right to flush survive sale of the animal?  How does the person retaining the right to flush put future buyers on notice of the retained right to flush?  What if Person B says the cow died or went to the sale barn as a cull?  That would be fairly easy to do if there are no registration papers and very difficult for Person A to enforce unless he or she can find and affirmatively identify the cow.