Schrag sale

[shortyjock89]

Nobody should raise show cattle. They're awful. Especially Shorthorns. And you can't sell them for any money if you do decide to raise them. That makes them even worse. 

 

[justintime]

Getting back to the original topic... the Schrag program is at least in it's 4th generation of raising Shorthorn breeding stock and I cannot think of any Shorthorn firm that has contributed as much to the breed and to the livestock industry as this family has. Doug Schrag, Cory's dad was, in my opinion a master breeder. It seems to me that Cory is following in his father's footprints. This is another operation built in integrity and they are successful because their cattle work and they stand behind them. I think there are quite a few people who have posted in this thread ( including me) that could take a lesson out of the Schrag handbook on how to produce good breeding cattle, and I cannot believe that some breeders on here who live less than a day drive from the Schrag operation, have never got off their butts and either attended one of their sales or had a herd tour. I guess it is just easier to sit at home, and make the decision that they must be doing something wrong because they are actually making money with their cattle.

I will totally agree that some of the people who cannot say a good thing about most anyone who is having success, are really starting to sound like a broken record. If you are one of these people who complain about most anything on here, please explain to the rest of us, how your breeding program is working better?  Actions always speak louder than words..... and I for one am not seeing much action.

The Schrag's were successfully selling Shorthorn bulls in large numbers to commercial producers 30-40 years ago, when most breeders were doing cartwheels when they actually got a bull sold. Paul and Doug Schrag held an annual bull sale every year in Yankton SD and it was pretty successful in that era. Nobody on here needs to be trying to tell this operation what they are doing wrong. They have forgot more about running a successful Shorthorn breeding operation than most will ever know.

 

[RyanChandler]

The Schrag's were successfully selling Shorthorn bulls in large numbers to commercial producers 30-40 years ago, when most breeders were doing cartwheels when they actually got a bull sold. Paul and Doug Schrag held an annual bull sale every year in Yankton SD and it was pretty successful in that era. Nobody on here needs to be trying to tell this operation what they are doing wrong. They have forgot more about running a successful Shorthorn breeding operation than most will ever know.

Selling 30-40 bulls to commercial buyers to What's Up. What happened?

 

[Doc]

The Schrag's were successfully selling Shorthorn bulls in large numbers to commercial producers 30-40 years ago, when most breeders were doing cartwheels when they actually got a bull sold. Paul and Doug Schrag held an annual bull sale every year in Yankton SD and it was pretty successful in that era. Nobody on here needs to be trying to tell this operation what they are doing wrong. They have forgot more about running a successful Shorthorn breeding operation than most will ever know.

Selling 30-40 bulls to commercial buyers to What's Up. What happened?

You say that like it's a bad thing. What are you basing that on? If I could make a living selling breds and open heifers, there's no way I would mess with keeping enough bulls around to sell 30 - 40 a year. I know what it's like to have just 2 bulls around, I can't imagine having 15 to 20 times that.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Isn't the point of seed stock breeders to supply bulls to commercial buyers?  It's seems it's just the opposite with shorthorns. And this isn't bashing anybody. Heaven forbid somebody ask questions and have a opinion other then what the masses think.

 

[justintime]

Isn't the point of seed stock breeders to supply bulls to commercial buyers?  It's seems it's just the opposite with shorthorns. And this isn't bashing anybody. Heaven forbid somebody ask questions and have a opinion other then what the masses think.

I guess if I had a market where I could sell the top half of my male calves as steers, I would be crazy not to consider doing this.Selling bulls is in my opinion the hardest part of being in the cattle business. You can sell females to most anyone, but getting a bunch of bulls sold takes a pile or work, both physical and mental.

Also, how many commercial bulls are the people on here selling each year who constantly complain about anyone who has a successful program?Personally, I do not measure the success of any seedstock producer by the number of bulls they sell to commercial producers. ... in any breed. People are in this beef business for a variety of reasons and there is no set of rules that you have to follow. If producing range bulls is your passion in life then get right at it and produce the best you can. If producing show heifer calves is your passion, then do this at the best of your ability as well. One is no more successful than the other, providing the owner is satisfied that they are meeting their goals they have set out.I would question if many of the complainers on here, actually have established a set of goals they want to achieve with their cattle herd???  I guess it is much easier to blame someone else as being the reason you are not seeing more success.  

 If you are selling 30-40 or more bulls each year after being in business for, say 15-20 years, then I suppose you may have a right to critcize what some others do, but really I would suggest you should be looking after your own operation and not worry what other producers are doing. If you know all the answers and are doing things better than othr breeders are doing it, I would think the commercial men and ranchers would be lined up trying to buy your bulls when you have your annual bull sales. Hmmmm.... My memory must be fading.... I can't remember the last time any of the people who do all the complaining, held their bull sales! From what some are posting here, the success of any seedstock business is determined by being able to sell their bulls to commercial producers. How is that working for you?

 

[aj]

I thought this thread ended up being a pretty good back and forth but it started out pretty slow. 4,500 views. I think the ivory tower people got their toes stepped on a bit.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

How many bulls does Gardner Angus sell. Schaff? TC Ranch? Sitz? Connelly? I could go in and on. Those are the meat and potatoes of the angus breed. What's there primary focus? Selling bulls to commercial producer. The reason you think it's harder to sell bulls is because that's what your experiences  are. It's not hard to sell bulls. It's hard to sell shorthorn bulls.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I just go a flyer from Schaff. They are selling 500 bulls or something. Again.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Give me some time. I will have a bull sale. I'll actually have all the data. I'll actual vaccinate. I'll actually report honest birthdays. Honest ww, honest yw. I wasn't lucky enough to be born into a farm do I started from scratch. Oh wait my neighbor gave me a shorthorn country. Just because somebody relatively new to the business hasn't had a bull sale yet, his opinion is flawed? Come on man. How many bulls did you sell in your early days? How many breeds have you rolled through? I started with two and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Okotoks]

It's interesting how a successful program like Schrag's can be used to get back to the endless lectures about what is wrong with Shorthorn breeders! I doubt Schrag's would want to take the advise of these naysayers in order to try to make their program more successful. A breeder needs to know their local market and  the market they want to sell into. I for one will not go out and select a bull based on someones single trait selection advise, a birth weight under 90 lbs or a cow weight of 1000 lbs.

Are you talking success in monetary terms or in terms of actually contributing to the beef industry?  I used to make a lot of cash in a pretty lucrative distribution business.  While the money was flowing, I wouldn't have exactly considered myself "successful." 

That's a very good question. In order to survive long enough in the beef industry to actually contribute to it you would need some amount of monetary success. Every one on this forum probably has a different idea of "success". In my opinion you need a long range plan with some goals. You need to be able to look at different programs and take ideas from them that will help yours (tearing down other people's programs does not make yours better) You also need to be aware of your local market and any other one that you plan on marketing to.You should study the newest fads before introducing them to your herd. (Of course some people survive by being the first on every fad, but does this contributes to the beef industry in the long term?)

 

[justintime]

Isn't the point of seed stock breeders to supply bulls to commercial buyers?  It's seems it's just the opposite with shorthorns. And this isn't bashing anybody. Heaven forbid somebody ask questions and have a opinion other then what the masses think.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions, in fact I wish more people would ask questions about this business. My problem is when people on here, mainly criticize others ( usually it is someone having success). Freedom is speech is one of the great things our fathers and forefathers fought for, and we should be eternally thankful for this and many other freedoms we enjoy, but that does not give me, or you or anyone else the right to define what another person should be doing with his breeding program. That is another basic right we have. Personally I could care less if someone wants to have a herd of ton cows, or if they want to have 900 lb cows. If they can find markets for what they produce and they succeed in reaching some of the goals they have set. The number of cows you have or the market you want to head for, has nothing to do with success. One of the most successful breeders I remember when I was growing up, owned 6 cows. They were awesome cows and they produced awesome bulls. I am presently using a son of one of the bulls he raised in the 60s.

Some of you are probably not old enough to remember the Beverely Hillbillies TV show. One of my all time favorite lines in this show, was Jed Clampitt saying to Granny " You should never complain about your neighbor's yard when your own barn needs paint".  Truer words were never spoken. That is all I am saying here. Some of the people on this board are too quick to jump to conclusions about other people's breeding programs because they may have a few big framed cows, or they have had a good sale average... etc etc. What does that matter to you?  They may have a completely different set of goals than what you have. They may have a completely different set of potential buyers, so they should not affect what you do in any way.  One of the measures of success in any business is producing a product for the markets you have available. The successful producers can figure this out. There is another saying that has speaks a bunch of truth " If you aren't part of the solution, you are a part of the problem." This has nothing to do with us all agreeing on everything.We don't have to, and that is the beauty of being in this business.

 

[RyanChandler]

Isn't the point of seed stock breeders to supply bulls to commercial buyers?  It's seems it's just the opposite with shorthorns.

(clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) <beer>  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

 

[Doc]

Isn't the point of seed stock breeders to supply bulls to commercial buyers? 

To me , not necessarily. To some purebred breeders that is their goal.  I personally try to raise good females to sell to other breeders and if I happen to end up with a bull calf that will make a herd bull then so be it.

 

[oakview]

In a perfect world, everyone would raise eye appealing bulls with good numbers that were ready to contribute to beef cattle improvement and commercial cattlemen would snap them up for huge prices and be happy to do it.  Unfortunately, too many of the commercial bulls I see in my travels were purchased at the "Special Breeding Bull Sale" at the local sale barn for market price, or perhaps even lower, and the buyer knows little if anything about the bull other than he was cheap and fertile.  I know there are progressive commercial bull producers and progressive commercial bull purchasers, but there are more than enough of the other kind of bulls out there, too.  My personal philosophy is that if they aren't good enough for me to use, I won't keep them for a bull.  I recently purchased a young bull on the internet, really liked his genetics and his picture didn't look too bad.  When I picked him up, I was not impressed.  After several months of feed, and no use by the way, he still stinks.  He's young enough he'll be fine for the freezer, unless some of you need a cow freshener.  Give me a call if you do.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Are good females not a by product of using good bulls? I'm sorry but this kind of thinking is half the problem in the breed. Do most shorthorn breeders sell there top half of bulls as steers? If that doesn't scream red flag I don't know what does.

 

[Doc]

Are good females not a by product of using good bulls? I'm sorry but this kind of thinking is half the problem in the breed. Do most shorthorn breeders sell there top half of bulls as steers? If that doesn't scream red flag I don't know what does.

What that because you would rather raise females than bulls there is an issue? For me personally it comes down to land. I don't have enough pastures or runs to keep a bunch of bulls around until they get to service age. I don't see what not wanting to raise bulls has to do with wanting to raise good females.
I agree with Oakview about the stockyard bull. Around here the average cattle guy has 10 to 15 cows , gets the calves up once a year to haul to the market and thats it. He wouldn't have a clue what preg checking, worming , vaccinating ,etc. is. If he remembers that ole Bessie didn't seem to have had a calf last year or he can't think off the top of his head when she had her last one then she finally gets shipped with the calves. He will keep breeding sire to daughters until the bull gets so poor that he can't breed anymore or that pinkeye that he never treated finally made the bull blind and when he hauls him off and he will set there and buy his next great herdsire while he is waiting for his check.
Yes, good females come using good bulls along with having good dams. This also for me is the reason for using cow families that have been around for generations because they had to have done something right to stay around that long.

 

[j3cattleco]

I guess what bother me the most about this whole situation is everyone assumes that the scenario and situations they face in their back yard is the same everywhere else.  No one is accounting for differences in pasture types, pasture sizes, labor available and many other items that should be taken into account when one is deciding what type of cow herd to build.  First and of the greatest priority for every producer should be to be financially independent enough to continue.  That in itself is self preservation at its finest.  After that it should be up to every producer to produce the cattle that are economically  viable for his situation and cattle he enjoys.  I don't tell you how to parent your children, why do you insist on telling me how I should use my time and resources to develop cattle that you approve of?  If you don't approve do something different.  This whining because you got your feelings hurt because they breed cattle that you don't like is getting ridiculous.  Get off Steerplanet and get busy about breeding the cattle you do like.  Just quit telling everyone else how their cattle are wrong because they won't fit your system.  Just because their different doesn't make them all bad either.  I said it earlier but I will say it again.  If everyone bred the same type of cattle the little guy would have no chance in the seedstock business.  So be thankful you don't like the cattle everyone else produces.

Joshua

 

[RyanChandler]

Word on the street J3, is that because of the TYPE of cattle you like, only about 20% of your cows weaned calves last year? True?

And its not about me not liking them, its about them being a threat to the commercial viability of the shorthorn breed.

 

[j3cattleco]

What does it matter to you once again about what my cows did?  Do your own thing and worry about those cows.  Quit telling everyone else how there cows should preform.  Create your own market and you will be able to provide the commercial bulls you desire.

Joshua