Scramble heifers

[cowboybecoachin]

We usually sell about 3-5 scramble heifers/year (here in Texas). Have sold 5 this year (and have more available).  My question is, how many of you get help from your ag teachers or 4H advisors?  What advice do they usually give/ Are most helpfull? Just looking for info to better serve our future customers.
It does seem some teachers do not really like long-haired cattle (like our Angus). Makes sense as is more work, and especially in Gulf or south Texas areas.
What have been some of your experiences? Was showing a scramble calf your first/only/good/bad experience? Did it start you showing other cattle? Did it get you in the cattle business?

 

[stangs13]

Mr. Christian,

Working at a feed store and being an high school student that raises show heifers I see many different ag teachers. They never do the same thing, and most tend to still use the same old feeding techniques and animal care they learned when they were in high school. Some kids want to go out to find there own animals, get advice from friends and family, feed stores, jocks..some ag teachers dont like that and get defensive and wont ever help the kids again..kind of sad sometimes. I look at it this way, if you dont have enough time to work hair on a heifer then you dont have enough time to take care of the calves basic needs either. And I sure wouldnt want someone like that buying my calves. We see a lot of "fad" heifers around here, kids just want to raise a heifer in the ffa because its cool to have one, that separates the few out for me.

 

[chambero]

Ag teachers tend to really control the scramble heifer deal - as in where the kids get their animals from.  We've sent scramble heifers all over the state (just sold one yesterday), but NEVER one to a kid in our own county.  And its not a price deal.

If an Ag teacher has one of their own children showing, a lot of them will ten to direct their students to people that will give them a signfiicant price break on their animals for their own kids.  I've seen that more than a few times.

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

This might be a dumb question, but what is a scramble heifer?

I'm just curious. I never heard of this.

 

[cowboybecoachin]

A number of shows in Texas, including Ft. Worth, San Antonio, Houston, Waco, and Austin, have a "calf scramble" as part of the rodeo. In Houston, 24 kids compete  to see who can catch, halter, and drag  12 calves inside a big square chalked off in the middle of the arena. The  winners get money to buy a heifer for next year. Houston pays best at $1250. Some as low as $500. Good opportunity to get a calf cheap or free.

 

[HoustonChamp]

Chambero..I am the son of an ag teacher and i have never seen or heard of an ag teacher trying to persuade kids to buy calves from certian breeders so they would in return get a break for their own kids, if you have expirenced a bad ag teacher do not put them all into one catagory. We search all over the U.S trying to find the best calves hopefully at a bargian, most kids that get scramble certificates just get them so they can can show one year, because that is all they can afford, they are usually not as dedicated as some and do not feed properly because it cost to much and, do not work with hair beacause they are simply to lazy,i did the scambles everywhere beacause we found a baby that we wanted and did'nt quite have enough money to buy her, i ended up champion ORB in the scramble show. I have agreed with just about everything you have ever said on here until this.

 

[chambero]

Didn't mean to offend you or anyone else, but there are more than a few that kind of "if I scratch your back, you need to scratch mine".  Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.  Most breeders I know recognize what the scramble Programs are  for and try to help those kids out accordingly.  I think the real question Mr Christian was wondering - and I always have also - is why don't more ag teachers try to shop local for their scramble heifers.  It's not a price issue and it's not a quality issue.

 

[Bulldaddy]

Didn't mean to offend you or anyone else, but there are more than a few that kind of "if I scratch your back, you need to scratch mine".  Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.  Most breeders I know recognize what the scramble Programs are  for and try to help those kids out accordingly.  I think the real question Mr Christian was wondering - and I always have also - is why don't more ag teachers try to shop local for their scramble heifers.  It's not a price issue and it's not a quality issue.

This buying local thing has happened to me not only with heifers but also bulls.  I think it has a lot to do with folks preceiving that the quality goes up the further you have to travel and, yes, sometimes it involves some special deals or favoritism.

 

[chambero]

Most scramble buyers are looking for a solid animal, not a major show contender.  We see kids dragging inferior animals that the kids could have done much better buying local.  It doesn't bother me, but I have always scratched my head about the logic the ag teachers use to find these animals.

 

[cowboybecoachin]

While we are in the business to sell show cattle, I do not wish any ag teacher to encourage a kid to buy a calf from me just because we are friends or have some sorta "deal or relationship.". I want anyone and everyone who buys from us to beleive we have excellent prospects that are priced right, that it is a good deal for their kids, and we will back up what we sell.
My phylosophy on selling show cattle is do right by the customer. Then they will usually come back and/or tell others.. I also believe you should be "in love" with the calf you buy, not just take it on someone else's say so. That might take more effort by the kid and parents and teacher/advisor, etc., but definitely worth it.
If the kid/parents/4H/ag teacher is not into it, why did they sign up to be in the scramble in the first place? 
I know my experience was very positive, as was that of my 3 brothers that also caught @ Houston. Most of our scramble customers are inexperienced, but this program  gives them an oppoortunity to LEARN about cattle, care, responsiblity, buying selling, showing, etc.
I see it as a great thing for our Texas kids.

 

[The Show]

I started showing goats and pigs in the 5th grade and after a couple years I wanted to move up to showing cattle. I caught in the calf scramble when I was in the 8th grade. My ag teacher was NO help. There were some people from our chapter that had been showing for a long time and they told us where we could go. The first year I learned a LOT from my breeder. As time went on I would pick up small things here and there, and I started meeting the right people and they were a ton of help as well. I still don't know everything and I probably never will, but I could probably write a book on what I have learned. Pay attention, don't be afraid to talk to people, and ask questions!!! Do that and you won't believe how much you can learn.

 

[rocknmranch]

A number of shows in Texas, including Ft. Worth, San Antonio, Houston, Waco, and Austin, have a "calf scramble" as part of the rodeo. In Houston, 24 kids compete  to see who can catch, halter, and drag  12 calves inside a big square chalked off in the middle of the arena. The  winners get money to buy a heifer for next year. Houston pays best at $1250. Some as low as $500. Good opportunity to get a calf cheap or free.

What are the ages of the calves?? Are the halters provided or do the kids bring their own? Are the calves that are drug to the square, the calves that they show, or do they get monies based on who was first into the square? Just a few more details would be great.

 

[The Show]

Their young 400-500 lb calves, some bigger some smaller. They give you a halter and you line up at the end of the arena and they turn the calves loose towards you. They drop the hat and you have to chase one down, tackle it, get a halter on it, and drag it to the square. You don't show the calf you catch bc their just cheap rodeo stock, and everybody that catches get's the same amount of money.

 

[aggiegal]

not entirely accurate.  Several of the shows (Waco and San Antonio) give a little extra money to the first kid to catch.  Our daughter caught first at Waco and got $100 cash added to her certificate.  Catching a calf is not easy...the arenas are huge (2 acres)!  Also, the kids have to keep detailed records, write to their sponsors monthly, etc.  It is work even outside the barn.  You can only scramble once after catching, with the exception of Waco (where you can apply every year).
Our daughter got her first heifer through the scramble program.  She caught at Waco, San Antonio, and Austin 2 years ago & combined her certificates to purchase a heifer.  Our ag teacher was very helpful once we decided on the breed we wanted to show.  He didn't really try to influence our choice at all, but definitely steered us to a breeder with quality stock.  I think the ag teachers have lots of connections (often with other ag teachers/contacts that raise cattle)  The picture in the avatar is her first heifer.  She was Supreme Heifer at the county level, Champion American at Kerrville District, Res. Breed Champ at San Antonio, and Div. Champ at Houston her FIRST year.  We got lots of help from the breeder and our ag teacher.  We had never shown a heifer before and would not have gotten one without the scramble program.  This same heifer won again at county, district, and then was Breed Champion at Houston and Austin this year.  I guess my point is some kids are definitely willing to work at it and appreciate that fact that they have those out there willing to sponsor them and give them an opportunity to be involved in raising a breeding project.  Our daughter has now scrambled and caught at every major and has 3 heifers.  This has given her a great opportunity.  She hasn't had to spend a dime on quality genetics...just put a lot of sweat equity into it! 
While her heifer was an American breed, she worked hair every day and had a lot.  A lot of ag teacher encourage kids to choose americans because of the hair without a dout.  It's easier on the kids & them, especially if going to a lot of shows.  I know we looked at Angus heifers and watched some of the shows before deciding and got scared away by the appreance of politics.  Not saying it's true or there, but appeared to be and could be a reason for difficulties.  The scramlbe programs are FANTASTIC and a great opportunity for all.  It has been a great learning experience for our daughter and she's not only met some neat people along the way, but has made some significant relationships with her sponsors as well.  We've never been afraid to buy localy and have done so with steers.  There just wasn't anyone local that had the breed of cattle we decided to focus on.

 

[STX108]

San Antonio gives $200.00 more to the first to scrambler to catch a calf during each perf...SALE awards $800.00 scramble certificates...they also award them with a nice engraved plaque... it is called the Platinum Scramble Award...My son was a recipient in February of 2008. Great story behind that catch!

 

[cowboybecoachin]

There are definitely some politics involved, maybe in all breeds. Angus have some political" problems, but to me that is part of the challenge.
I do not think one shy away from the competition, but try to BEAT the best........then YOU and your calf are the best!

The top end in any breed is gonna be super competitive. Just get a good calf, feed 'm, and fit'm and stick'm RIGHT and you will not be dissapointed in the results.

 

[The Show]

Yeah I forgot about the record keeping and alllll the paper work that goes along with it.

There are politics involved in just about every breed. Like they say; It's not what you know, it's who you know. IMO Angus is the toughest breed to win, not bc of politics, but bc sooo many people show Angus and they have the toughest competition. Angus will have 20-30 calves in a class at a Tx major and on top of that they have long hair so you have to work twice as hard.