SH Heifer - Breeding Advice

[shortyjock89]

I'm glad to see that Goldmine 2109 was mentioned.  I know that I am a "show" person, but we had a 2109 son for a herd sire for the last couple years.  We raised him, and his BW was 81 lbs.  His calves averaged about 80 lbs at birth, and they were quick to grow.  I wouldn't say that the calves were clubby at all, but they had some hair, and were really nice in all their lines, and pretty thick. I would suggest 2109 or Jake's Proud Jazz.

 

[garybob]

Lasy fall we AI ed some our hiefers to Wymore.  By this fall I can tell you how easy calving he is.  All of our hiefers this spring are calving to our Durham Red Bull.  We are very excited about those calves.  We have only had 8 Thus far out of hiefers but the heaviest  has been 83#.  With most in the lower 70.  One older cow had a 91# calf( but last year she had a 140# AI calf so take that for what it is worth).

Get enough rain last night?

 

[shorthorns r us]

Lasy fall we AI ed some our hiefers to Wymore.  By this fall I can tell you how easy calving he is.  All of our hiefers this spring are calving to our Durham Red Bull.  We are very excited about those calves.  We have only had 8 Thus far out of hiefers but the heaviest  has been 83#.  With most in the lower 70.  One older cow had a 91# calf( but last year she had a 140# AI calf so take that for what it is worth).

Get enough rain last night?

my inlaws are straight south of will and SW of GB,  they had 100 mph winds at 5AM.  all their roofing stayed down but one neighbor lots a broiler house full of 6 day old chickens.  how many is that GB?

 

[garybob]

Lasy fall we AI ed some our hiefers to Wymore.  By this fall I can tell you how easy calving he is.  All of our hiefers this spring are calving to our Durham Red Bull.  We are very excited about those calves.  We have only had 8 Thus far out of hiefers but the heaviest  has been 83#.  With most in the lower 70.  One older cow had a 91# calf( but last year she had a 140# AI calf so take that for what it is worth).

Get enough rain last night?

my inlaws are straight south of will and SW of GB,  they had 100 mph winds at 5AM.  all their roofing stayed down but one neighbor lots a broiler house full of 6 day old chickens.  how many is that GB?

depends. How old are the "Houses"? 32' X 380'?, or, 40' X 400"? The 32 by 380's held 13,000. Hope they were insured to the max.

GB

 

[Doc]

Isn't Gizmo at SEK?   I think you can order just one straw if you want from SEK..   Correct me if I'm wrong here.   

The one thing like CAB said , if she doesn't stick & you just bought one straw you just dropped $185 min. ( min $85 shipping) I personally would go with a bull in that $20-$30 range where you can split shipping costs over 5 straws instead of one. I wouldn't have problems with Chiller, Surf or Osage. JMO.

 

[kanshow]

Posted by: Doc 
Insert Quote
Quote from: kanshow on Today at 09:54:01 AM
Isn't Gizmo at SEK?  I think you can order just one straw if you want from SEK..  Correct me if I'm wrong here. 


The one thing like CAB said , if she doesn't stick & you just bought one straw you just dropped $185 min. ( min $85 shipping) I personally would go with a bull in that $20-$30 range where you can split shipping costs over 5 straws instead of one. I wouldn't have problems with Chiller, Surf or Osage. JMO.

  Right.. guess I was just assuming that you'd probably put some other semen on the order to split shipping.   

I would probably be hesitant like some say to AI with $100 semen.  There are enough variables that cause cattle not to stick the first time w/out making it more expensive. 

 

[KYsteer]

I know that none of the shorthorn guys probably want to hear this, but I have seen OCC Legend do wonders on first calf Shorthorn heifers.  Saw one the last year sell for 5K out of the pasture.  They are very fancy calves, yet will grow out to be excellent cows.

 

[savaged]

Well, I'm about convinced to stay with a PB shorthorn bull.  I's love to go with Gizmo - but I hate to drop two bills for the breeding (I usually buy at least two of each bull I want to breed to).  No one mentioned Sin City, and my daughter would love the idea of a chance for a white steer.  Is he a poor choice?

 

[shorthorns r us]

No one mentioned Sin City, and my daughter would love the idea of a chance for a white steer.  Is he a poor choice?

probably not.  based on my experience, he can be all over the board.

 

[showman ne]

use LCC Above & Beyond. He's a proven red angus calving ease bull. plus the calf is durham red eligable

 

[GONEWEST]

No one has mentioned Chiller. Recently calved 5 heifers to him all little calves and pretty good.

If you like Gizmo and assume it takes 3 straws to get her bred. That's $300 vs. $60 for another calving ease bull. $240 difference. I believe that the calf out ogfGizmo would be worth WAY more than $240 more than a calf out of Joe Average Calving Ease Shorthorn. You couldn't put $300 in the bank as an investment and do as well.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

If you are looking for a white bull, look at TM Gus. 

 

[Jill]

No one has mentioned Chiller. Recently calved 5 heifers to him all little calves and pretty good.

If you like Gizmo and assume it takes 3 straws to get her bred. That's $300 vs. $60 for another calving ease bull. $240 difference. I believe that the calf out ogfGizmo would be worth WAY more than $240 more than a calf out of Joe Average Calving Ease Shorthorn. You couldn't put $300 in the bank as an investment and do as well.

If your 1st calf heifer doesn't have any milk, or won't claim the calf, or lays on it or some other stupid thing heifers tend to do, it isn't worth a dime more, there are just too many variables with a 1st calf heifer for anyone to justify that kind of expense for me.

 

[bradycreek]

Well said Jill. 
My thoughts exactly. Numbers off the ASA web site

            bw----ww----yw----milk
Gizmo    .9        3        -7    1-----$100

Osage--3.1    12      30      7------$20

Buster----1.3  14      28    3------$35
SH breed
average--1.8  15      23    3

I know EPD's are only part of it. You have to figure out where you want to go and which bull would match up to your hefier best.
I like to look at the phenotype of the sire in question as well as the dam and sire of the AI sire being considered.
No doubt in my mind Gizmo is a proven producer but there are more out there to look at especially for a first time hefier.
Depending on your hefiers #'s gizmo could actually take her calf below the Shorthorn breed EPD average and if trying to market an animal impressive EPD's do help.

 

[OH Breeder]

No one has mentioned Chiller. Recently calved 5 heifers to him all little calves and pretty good.

If you like Gizmo and assume it takes 3 straws to get her bred. That's $300 vs. $60 for another calving ease bull. $240 difference. I believe that the calf out ogfGizmo would be worth WAY more than $240 more than a calf out of Joe Average Calving Ease Shorthorn. You couldn't put $300 in the bank as an investment and do as well.

If your 1st calf heifer doesn't have any milk, or won't claim the calf, or lays on it or some other stupid thing heifers tend to do, it isn't worth a dime more, there are just too many variables with a 1st calf heifer for anyone to justify that kind of expense for me.

I spent 500 on a c-section from a "calving ease sire". Gizmo calved the same time unassisted and a 65# heifer that has been a star since birth. You can try one straw of GIzmo and one straw of a bull of your choice to get her settled. The up front investment, it is an investment, is worth more than vet bills or loss of a calf. If a heifer calves we usually put them under close watch til we see how they are going to do with the calf. It is not uncommon for them to be penned up for two weeks before turning them out. It assures that they will do okay. If you feel like the female is worth it and know someone who is good at AI and you don't feel comfortable with $100 straw of semen, have someone else AI her that is good. THe Gizmo females I have seen I would not part with.

 

[thepoorfarm]

We love our Short horn /Angus cross calves nice English F1, they make great replacements. The shorthorn assoc, is pushing that genetic cross, look at marketing section, and the PDF files, good info http://www.shorthorn.org/asa/tabID_3786/tailored.aspx

 

[oakbar]

Another Shorthorn bull you might want to consider for calving ease is SS Deadwood.  I've been hearing good things about his first calves and we got our first one today.  She weighed 65 pounds at 272 days post  AI and came unassisted.  In fact, her Joe Rider/Revival mother had her all licked off and she'd been up and nursed and was tearing around the pen when I first saw her.  I'd just checked the heifer 5 hours earlier and I though she was a few days off yet!!  Just a thought if you want to stay Shorthorn!!

 

[GONEWEST]

Well said Jill. 
My thoughts exactly. Numbers off the ASA web site

            bw----ww----yw----milk
Gizmo    .9        3        -7    1-----$100

Osage--3.1    12      30      7------$20

Buster----1.3  14      28    3------$35
SH breed
average--1.8  15      23    3

I know EPD's are only part of it. You have to figure out where you want to go and which bull would match up to your hefier best.
I like to look at the phenotype of the sire in question as well as the dam and sire of the AI sire being considered.
No doubt in my mind Gizmo is a proven producer but there are more out there to look at especially for a first time hefier.
Depending on your hefiers #'s gizmo could actually take her calf below the Shorthorn breed EPD average and if trying to market an animal impressive EPD's do help.

MORE numbers off the ASA website:

                                        # of progeny    bwepd accuracy


GIZMO                                    688                      .90

OSAGE                                      46                      .60

BUSTER                                    37                      .54

To use EPD's you have to know how accurate they are. Obviously Gizmo has had about 15 times as many calves as these other bulls. EPD's mean zero if their accuracy is not extremely high.

You need to breed the heifer to the bull YOU want to breed her to. If you don't and it turns out a flop, you'll be wondering why in the world you listened to what someone said on an internet board. I liked the suggestion someone made on Deadwood. His bw EPD is +2.8. But call around and see who has had a big calf from him.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

I really like K-kim Revamp.  I used him last year on one of our cows and this is the bull calf at less than 6 months old. 

sorry for the bad pict.

 

[DL]

Here is my policy on breeding heifers - it has worked great for me and has been tweaked as more information becomes available

Do everything possible to minimize having a wreck - this means to me
1. using a known, proven calving ease bull with excellent EPDs and very high accuracy
2. not using new unproven bulls on heifers
3. having heifers in good condition (not fat) and approximately 70-80% of mature BW
4. pelvic measure heifers - if pelvic area is too small ---> gone
5. heifers get bred 2 times maximum AI - if they don't stick ---> gone

Breeding for maternal traits, fertility and "stickability AI" I have had very few heifers that do not stick AI the first time and only one that didn't stick after 2. Unlike Jill I have never had a "1st calf heifer doesn't have any milk, or won't claim the calf, or lays on it or some other stupid thing heifers tend to do" so I have no trouble using expensive calving ease semen on heifers.

While it has been suggested that you need to breed her to a bull you like, I would suggest you do your homework, research your pedigrees and make a decision based on knowledge - with the idea that your goal should be a live calf and a live heifer - a great dead calf out of a bull you really like and a crippled heifer from a bad calving isn't worth a hill of beans, no matter how much you liked the bull.