Shorthorn breeders

[OH Breeder]

I am not trying to start a big issue. BUT, as I am browsing the sale catalogs coming up. Some of the best cattle I have seen in a long time. It seems like the farms are producing better and better cattle. BUT, as I start to look at the genetics, there is alot of replication. Lots of blood lines that are same in many of the catalogs. Do you all feel we need to widen our genetic pool? Maybe it is just me.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

oh I agree, I have been looking at the Canadian blood now for a little bit, and used a little bit with some success, but it seems to me that right now all you have to do is throw a ball at a group of shorthorn cattle and 95% of the time what ever you hit will go back to trump. 

 

[knabe]

dare to be a daniel

 

[OH Breeder]

oh I agree, I have been looking at the Canadian blood now for a little bit, and used a little bit with some success, but it seems to me that right now all you have to do is throw a ball at a group of shorthorn cattle and 95% of the time what ever you hit will go back to trump. 

Lots of double and triple bred Trump. Like I said, their are some great looking cattle and i wouldn't mind owning a peice of them. I kind of see why Leader 21st might fit into the current genetic pool. It really brings a new twist. I too started to look at some canadian blood. I bought some Alta Cedar First Blood a couple years ago and have been planning on using it after I saw his calves. After looking through the Fever Sale catalog I am liking more what I see.

 

[shortyjock89]

There IS a lot of Trump runnin around nowadays, and I think some people are going to miss out on not linebreeding him a little bit.  I would much rather linebreed to Trump rather than Double Vision, just because Vision will get them really straight in a hurry if you're not careful.  Then you get into cows and cow family selection with those sires close in their pedigree, and then from the bottom side of their pedigree, you can get a lot of variation. Line breed a little bit, and get some more consistancy, then hit the offspring of the linebreeding with an outcross to take maximum advantage of heterosis within the breed.  I'm sure I'm rambling by now....and with that said, we're using both Trump AND Double Vision son's, and also complete outcross sires like Ace of Diamonds.

 

[oakbar]

One of the reasons I bought our Myrtle Bo cow(avatar) was that she has no Trump or Double Stuff in her pedigree.  We have calves by her out of Sonny(Trump) and Vortec and we flushed her to Vortec(also Trump and DS free)this year.  I like the flexibility of going several ways with her.

The Trump(Sonny) has certainly been a prepotent line and we have at least one if not two shots of it in almost all of our other females.  That's why this year we used Ar Su Lu Tonic, Jakes Proud Jazz, and TM Gus as our Shorthorn sires.  They also should help somewhat with the escalating birth weights we have seen in recent years.

I'm stongly considering some of the Canadian bloodllines as well.  JIT has some good looking, performance based bulls IMO and we're considering some others from "Up North" as well.

 

[Ruebush Shorthorns]

I am pretty sure that I have already seen over 100 Salute calves pictures in sales all over.  Personally I think everyone used him just because he is from Sullivans.  I have not used him, and don't plan to buy anything that is out of him.  I have not been impressed.  Also, I have seen a lot of JPJ being used.  I will not use him either.  I hate the way the bull looks and have no desire to use him.  Overall I think that I am starting to vear further and further from breeding for purebred shorthorns.  They preform poorly and the cows seem to look horrible in most instances.  Getting a stout enough purebred shorthorn steer to compete with the clubbies is nearly impossible.  I believe crossbreeding to shorthorns will make much more desirbale calves as well as the genetic heterosis to help downsize and stregthen the shorthorn momma's.  This fall I will probably AI cross breed to clubby bulls and then clean up for purebred calves will SS Joe Rider.  I will stick one or two with some Ace of Diamonds but the rest will be Red Hot, Manchild, Jimmy the Greek and maybe a couple others I have in the tank.  I straight love the shorthorn plus females and steers.  Blue roans and all the other combinations that you can get using a shorthorn cow make a lot of chrome on calves.  Just my personal opinion and it comes from the east coast wear black cattle rule.

 

[shortdawg]

We've shown many Shorthorn Purebred steers that would compete with any breed. Especially some of the JPJ's I've seen          ( many, many calves )  would compete with the black calves any day. JMHO

 

[cattleking]

trust me guys it's not just shorthorns its also charloias.
if there is a charloais it's bound to have hoo doo blood

 

[uluru]

If you want to use some good Canadian sires check out

www.shorthorns.ca

CSGmall

You will find very little Trump or Sonny

 

[OH Breeder]

If you want to use some good Canadian sires check out

www.shorthorns.ca

CSGmall

You will find very little Trump or Sonny

You wouldn't by any chance have seen any calves out of JIT's Mist return? really like the dam on him. Very interesting pedigree. Would love to see some calves.

 

[stick]

"I would much rather linebreed to Trump rather than Double Vision, just because Vision will get them really straight in a hurry if you're not careful."

I don't know why anyone would want to line up DV, him being a carrier and all. Also his calves just don't have the grow and size of a lot of the bloodlines out there.

 

[shortyjock89]

Well, there is always that.  I just assumed that someone would be smart enough not to linebreed a TH carrier heifer to a TH carrier sire.  How wrong was I! ))    Also, and it may just be us, but our DV calves have been just as big as our Sonny and Trump influenced calves for the most part.  I would REALLY like to line up is some of the Super Dazzler genetics with an American Outcross, as I think Dazzler was one of the few Aussie bulls that threw enough "look" for breeders here.

 

[simtal]

this is the same question I have for simmys

 

[yuppiecowboy]

Ruebush, i agree, although experience tells me your opinion will not be a popular one.

Are horns Trump heavy? some. I dont think any worse than we were heavy Dividend or any of the other "greatest of all time" sires and trends. It seems to me that from every trend that stagnated an oportunity was created for someone, or multiple breeders, with different genetics to have a profound impact on breed improvement (if not improvement at least alteration. Never did see the point of Ayatollah).

Rocker Bros were some people doing their thing and selling to their happy clients for decades before they were "discovered". Haumonts with the beefy milkers, Aldens with the pretty crossbred cattle from Ireland, Grahams with their bull battery, Cedar Curve, KaBa ranch, Steinke.

You can lead or you can follow or you can walk your own path. The followers never lead, they just pay the leaders bills, while those that stuck to their own path often times find themselves in the lead.

Nothing new.

Once upon a time if you didnt have a bull imported from Scotland sired by a Bapton whatever you werent cutting edge. Then All Irish. (I never understood why riding in a boat was the determinate factor of a bulls quality) Milkers, Maines, all had individuals that were fine beasts that made shorthorns better. Unfortunately as with any trend it invariably goes overboard.

The "milking shorthorns" of haumonts were beefier than most beef shorthorns today. Ayatollah and his ilk? no. Cunia may be the only bull in heaven. He helped everything. Red Alert? no. Dividend? Improver (even with the luggage) sure.

trump will be old news one of these days. Probably pretty soon actually, mostly because "SOME PEOPLE" find  Trump lineage harder keeping than a Johnes infested Jersey with hardware.

 

[shortdawg]

Trump lines will faze out only when they stop winning, if that ever happens.

 

[yuppiecowboy]

You are correct, but it will happen. Maybe not all at once and maybe not completely. i would imagine there is stil some dividend up close in some big winners pedigrees etc. Heck I like Sonny heifers. it has been my observation that money is made on "best new" and change, not status quo. In 1970 the idea that a show winner could be out of anything but Kinnabear leader 6th was inconceivable. styles and trends, like fashion, change frequently. I look at old issues of Shorthorn Country from say, 1985, and scratch my head amazed that those animals were ever in demand let alone deemed superior.

 

[shortdawg]

Yea, It used to be when in doubt frame them out. As high as everything is now those cattle would sure be tough to make a profit on.