Shorthorn bull pictures

[kfacres]

, but who likes to look at a skinny cow?

i do.. that means she's earning her keep.  fat cows don't breed. fat cows don't milk... and if you have a shorthorn... she'd better be the gawd ugliest damn, johnes infested, hardware ridden thing you've ever seen.. or she'll never raise a calf...

the poorest cow in our herd- who was foundered, and doesn't have any more udder than a piss ant... would be the number one cow I would pick out to flush and build a herd with.  Has produced two heifer calves in her only two calvings-- that I've been offered anywhere from 4-6k for constantly-- but I don't like selling. 

I beg to differ, I have a 40 cow herd, all of which are in proper shape, some are pushing "fat" yet they all breed, and they all milk, I actually pride myself on the fertility and udder quality/ milking ability of my herd more than I do their conformation. But that just comes with having good cows, judging by your previous post/pics you won't be able to relate to me on that one right "Cut the BS"? Is it not hypocritical of you to rant about how "bad" it is for people to build their herds around the Trump and JPJ lines yet you're willing to build a herd around your bottom end cow? Oh well, I guess haters are gonna hate. 

My bottom end cow- is a direct daughter of the very most elite female ever to step foot on our place.  A cow that calved initially at 18 months with a 95# bull calf (Slightly assisted- as she was at the time on a show heifer ration)- after that she never again calved with one over 70 lbs.  That cow then proceeded to calve within a week for the next several years- until her final time- she died one week before calving.  Because we had life insurance on her- they wanted an autopsy- which revealed her carrying twins: and that during the rotation of the calves to be born, they pinched off a nerve and killed her instantly- if only she would have had one single/ normal calf??? She'd very likely still be alive. 

The really scrubby daughter I have: was a tremendous calf from the start; pick of all who visited.  I sent her to a very good friend's place to show: and she returned foundered, and has not been right since.  She is now bred for her third calf- and has weaned off the number 1 heifer calf both this year and last year. 

I think the post directly above this one: pretty well sums up the rest of my thoughts...

 

[coyote]

I was just visiting with a Charolais breeder from up here and he said that he estimated that his birth weights this year are close to 10 lbs lighter than last year. He had said other guys that are calving now are experiencing the same thing. This year has been one of the warmest winters on record.

Yes, Obama told me that we could fund the study.  He said that if you would send one of those bulls down to Oklahoma, I could pay you the cost of fuell (so you wouldn't be out anything) and he would repay me.  I'll send you birth weight totals when the calves hit the ground next year. 

That sounds good I will see if Prime Minister Harper would supply the beer.

 

[justintime]

In regards to the comment Carl made about how we prove differences in birth weights in different parts of the continent. When I was in college, which was neons ago now, we did a study between Texas and Saskatchewan. Our little test was not big enough to be significant but I think it may have shown a trend.  What we did was we took equal numbers of embryos from 4 different flushes, and implanted half here in Saskatchewan and had the other half implanted in a herd in Texas that was being managed by Texas A&M. We did this for two years and we saw some interesting results. In year one, we saw a average decrease in BW of 12 lbs in the Texas born calves over the Sask calves. In year two, we actaully saw a 15.5 lb decrease in the Texas born calves over the Sask ones. The second year was a wicked winter here in Saskatchewan and we expected that this was the major reason for the differences between year one and two. The size of our test was not huge so we never came up with statistical founded data, but like I said earlier, I think we did see a trend.

I just weighed a new baby calf a few minutes ago . It was 95 lbs. It is out of the smallest cow in my herd. At 1 AM this cow showed no signs of calving and when I went out at 6:30 this morning, this calf was running around, had nursed and was almost dry. That tells me that her momma didn't take very long to calve. I agree with Carl, in that you have to draw a line on BWs somewhere. I have chosen to draw this line at 110 lbs and I have done this for a decade now. I have not had one complaint regarding BWs of bulls I have sold in that time. I believe everything in life is best in moderate amounts, including BWs. I see some breeders striving for very low BWs and I also believe that you can also breed the ability of a cow or heifer to calve naturally out of them and I think we need to be conscious of this fact. There are studies out there that show decreased pelvic areas from using low BW sires in succession. To me, this makes some sense to me. Like I said, if we stay somewhere in the middle, we probably remove many problems or potential problems.

 

[justintime]

I was just visiting with a Charolais breeder from up here and he said that he estimated that his birth weights this year are close to 10 lbs lighter than last year. He had said other guys that are calving now are experiencing the same thing. This year has been one of the warmest winters on record.

Yes, Obama told me that we could fund the study.  He said that if you would send one of those bulls down to Oklahoma, I could pay you the cost of fuell (so you wouldn't be out anything) and he would repay me.  I'll send you birth weight totals when the calves hit the ground next year. 

That sounds good I will see if Prime Minister Harper would supply the beer.

I have just started calving and had the 8th calf born this morning. I have talked with a few neighbors and they are saying the exact opposite. Most are saying lighter BWs over last year. A neighbor with Charolais said all of his are lighter with the exception of the calves off one new herd bull. and he had big calves from him , and he has been already sent him to town. My calving is too early to say yet but so far, my heaviest calf was the calf this morning at 95 lbs. They have all been between 82 and 92 until the calf today. I can live with those BWs... all born unassisted so far, all up and running around in minutes, all healthy and vigorous... just the way an old guy likes them!

 

[coyote]

I have talked with a few neighbors and they are saying the exact opposite.

Opposite to what?

 

[sue]

Peak Dot Black Angus selling fall and winter born bulls.  Sale in SASk, Canada. Fall borns 70 to 80s. Feb/March born bulls ( nearly 100hd) I found 5 over 90 lbs, one that was 97 lbs. I think  the same applies to any breeder. If want low birth high weaning wt spread bulls to sell... it's selection within your program and environment.
  Best of luck carl and scot. Nice to see more red bulls too.

 

[comercialfarmer]

Peak Dot Black Angus selling fall and winter born bulls.  Sale in SASk, Canada. Fall borns 70 to 80s. Feb/March born bulls ( nearly 100hd) I found 5 over 90 lbs, one that was 97 lbs. I think  the same applies to any breeder. If want low birth high weaning wt spread bulls to sell... it's selection within your program and environment.
  Best of luck carl and scot. Nice to see more red bulls too.

Those are good weights, but the fall born part  will make a big difference.  I think you have to be careful and compare apples to apples.  Those same cattle with spring born will definitely add some BW. 

 

[justintime]

I have talked with a few neighbors and they are saying the exact opposite.

Opposite to what?

coyote  I meant the guys I have spoken with in this area are saying their calves are lighter than last years calves. I don't have enough yet to know for sure, but the few I have, have been very moderate BWs. 

 

[DRB]

I think when trying to compare BWs and what is normal in your area, it would be useful to weight the actual cows too.  My gut is those cows having 120lb calves are pretty big themselves.  I did this a while back in my own herd, had fall cow weights and spring BWs and did the comparison, most were all in that 6-7% range BW vs Cow weight, there were a few outliers.

 

[sue]

Peak Dot Black Angus selling fall and winter born bulls.  Sale in SASk, Canada. Fall borns 70 to 80s. cto any breeder. If want low birth high weaning wt spread bulls to sell... it's selection within your program and environment.
  Best of luck carl and scot. Nice to see more red bulls too.

Those are good weights, but the fall born part  will make a big difference.  I think you have to be careful and compare apples to apples.  Those same cattle with spring born will definitely add some BW. 

Feb/March born bulls ( nearly 100hd) I found 5 over 90 lbs, one that was 97 lbs. I think  the same applies
100 hd of Feb/March born bulls....

 

[comercialfarmer]

Peak Dot Black Angus selling fall and winter born bulls.  Sale in SASk, Canada. Fall borns 70 to 80s. cto any breeder. If want low birth high weaning wt spread bulls to sell... it's selection within your program and environment.
  Best of luck carl and scot. Nice to see more red bulls too.

Those are good weights, but the fall born part  will make a big difference.  I think you have to be careful and compare apples to apples.  Those same cattle with spring born will definitely add some BW. 

Feb/March born bulls ( nearly 100hd) I found 5 over 90 lbs, one that was 97 lbs. I think  the same applies
100 hd of Feb/March born bulls....

My main purpose in responding it to say that my comments were not directed toward the producer you mentioned.  I am speaking in generalities.  So pulling out a 100 BW's of calves we know nothing about- genetic differences between the dam's used, variation in sires, quality and quantity of feed, weather for the gestation year in question, housing conditions, how many calves are not being reported in your groups (were there more >90 lb calves in the spring born that weren't included, were there more dystocias that failed to produce a live calf) etc...  doesn't really do much for me. 

You are welcome to your opinion.  If you don't believe that there is difference in weather affecting BW, not a problem for me.  I tend to go with controlled study information that is repeatable. 

http://www.hpj.com/archives/2011/aug11/aug29/0808HotWeatherAffectsFallBi.cfm

"The reason early fall calving cows have lighter birth weights is generally attributed to cows' gestating in hot weather. Blood flow patterns of cattle during high temperatures change to dissipate heat from the body. Blood is shunted to the outer extremities during hot weather to dissipate heat, so less blood flow is sent to the inner core of the cow. This subtle change in blood flow is thought to be the reason that lighter birth weights occur in the last trimester of pregnancy in June to August. Producers with early fall-calving cows should expect lighter (and perhaps weaker) calves that will be born early this fall calving season."

 

[wiseguy]

Cattlefarmer I understand exactly what you are trying to say, but I think you are misunderstanding Sue's point. I believe her point is that if the Angus breed is able to achieve these BW's in the same area then is it the weather or the genetics? What I took from her statement was the fact that maybe these BW's where a result of genetics/ selection not weather temperature.

 

[sue]

Yep. I was making a general point too, wiseguy.  I think if you're breeding British seedstock then it's ok to compare Angus and herfords to shorts. I might point out that Peak dot bulls were born in feb/march and saskvalley are april/may.

 

[vcsf]

Yep. I was making a general point too, wiseguy.   I think if you're breeding British seedstock then it's ok to compare Angus and herfords to shorts. I might point out that Peak dot bulls were born in feb/march and saskvalley are april/may.

I think that it should be pointed out that when comparing Peak Dot Angus bulls to Sask Valley Shorthorn bulls that well both operations are located in Saskatchewan Sask Valley would be roughly 300 miles north of Peak Dot and the environments are actually quite a bit different. 

I also question the practice of directly comparing birth weights across herds even if they are located right beside each other.  Factors other than gentics can have a huge effect including how the cows are fed and how close to birth the calves are actually weighed.  Another factor of significance can be as simply as the scale being used consider if one scale weighs 3 pounds light and another 3 pounds heavy both producers think they are being accurate but they are recoding 6 pounds difference in weight of the very same size calf.  How many of us check our scale on a regular basis?  I know I will only check mine maybe once at the start of calving usually.  I do believe it is very beneficial to look at were a birthweight ranks within herd and to decide if you think the genetics from that herd are acceptable for you to use.

 

[comercialfarmer]

Cattlefarmer I understand exactly what you are trying to say, but I think you are misunderstanding Sue's point. I believe her point is that if the Angus breed is able to achieve these BW's in the same area then is it the weather or the genetics? What I took from her statement was the fact that maybe these BW's where a result of genetics/ selection not weather temperature.

Well, I admit I'm guilty.  There are a lot of breeders/multipliers that produce more than one breed of cattle- like a big one here locally,  that produce both limousine and angus.  I am not familiar with Peak Dot and didn't take the time to investigate them.  Being it was on a shorthorn thread, I assumed it was in regards to them.  Do I get sentenced to a time out now?  My point about weather influence, I still stand on.

I'll leave it at that, and apologize to the original author for swiping his thread. 

 

[vanridge]

We don't take the camera out very often, but we do when bull sale time comes around.  Here are a few of the pictures we took here in the last few days.  The bull sale catalogue should be done in 2-3 weeks.  If you want to see video of some of the bulls in the sale go to http://www.youtube.com/user/whosyourdaddybull?ob=0
Coyote already posted a few of his pictures and some of his videos are on youtube as well.  There is one more set of bulls that are yet to be put on youtube, so check back in a week or two if you like.

Really like the way the look. There is some beef there!! (thumbsup)