Shorthorn bulls for black cows???

[RandS]

Looking for a shorthorn bull that crosses well on black cows.  We have Simm, Simm/Angus and some comm. Angus.  Looking to make steers but a replacement or two wouldn't be bad either.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks

 

[mark tenenbaum]

IF YOU WANT TO SHOW AND YOU WANT THEM THICK do you want the thick clubby types that used to dominate everything? LOOK at the older steer show pics-they REMAIN-awesome.Or the showier newer lower BW Maine x deals that go back to Red Reward?-or selective Canadian bulls that will produce showier types and a ton of rib? O0 O0

 

[kiblercattle]

Lucky p on here is using shorthorn bulls on his simmi and sim angus cows. Hopefully he will reply and give you some good insight.

 

[RandS]

Show steers are definitely the goal.  I tend to like the looks of the Canadian bulls.  I"m still trying to learn about the selection of bulls for my cows.

 

[shortyjock89]

Canadian bulls won't make steers. The Bulls you want are all Jakes Proud Jazz and his derivatives. I wouldn't ever use them, but if they have a purpose, it's exactly what you're going for.

 

[RyanChandler]

Canadian bulls won't make steers. The Bulls you want are all Jakes Proud Jazz and his derivatives. I wouldn't ever use them, but if they have a purpose, it's exactly what you're going for.

Jazz and his sons for sure. Not to mention they'll make you some of the best momma cows in the breed.  People often forget about AHL too. I bet he's got some newer bulls that would work here as well. 

 

[Lucky_P]

COMMERCIAL outfit here, so my weigh-in here will have no relevance to what you're doing, but I'll offer it up just in the event that someone who's production-oriented might read this thread. 
We have used only solid red bulls, and mostly Waukaru sires, initially and principally because they were available from OriGen through my ABS rep - no shipping charges.
Base cowherd is mostly ~3/4AN-1/4SM, descended from my old haphazardly linebred Fleckvieh-influenced (sons & full sibs of ABR Sir Arnold G809) SimAngus herd.

Started out with Waukaru Gold Mine 2109, because of his high CED/low BW and all the horror stories we'd heard about Shorthorn BWs.  Easy-calving - I'd use that bull on ANY heifer.  Steers were good - really impressed on us that SH might also be a decent terminal cross... daughters are shaping up to be perhaps the best Shorthorn-cross cows in the herd... good dispositions, mostly good udders, producing nice calves.

Waukaru Gold Card 5042 - got used one season on mostly on low-end cows...I'm thinking that he didn't get a fair shake here; steers were average to good but out of less than stellar cows.  The two Gold Card daughters retained are shaping up to be good cows.  Will probably go back and use this bull again.

Waukaru Coppertop 464 - Steers were great!  Comparable to any high WW epd Simmental-sired calves out of the same group of cows.  Coppertop daughters just now really coming into production, but they look to be good, if a bit framier than the Gold Mines.

Waukaru Orion 2047 - Steers were the best we've ever raised.  March-borns weaned in Sept at 697# on grass and dam's milk.  First daughters will calve in a month or so.

Waukaru Patent 8161 - first calves here born this spring; they look great.

Rob Sneed '034' bull (RSDV 01 729 04 034) - steers were good; comparable to the Gold Mine calves born at the same time.  Daughters are really nice, wish I'd bought more semen when it was available.

Captain Obvious 606S - only used a half-cane...steers were so-so; one daughter died of tetanus prior to weaning, other is on her second calf, a Patent daughter that looks good.  The CO daughter is OK, but has a silhouette almost resembling a bison cow... not especially to my liking, but she's got a nice udder, raises good calves, and has done nothing to warrant going on the cull list.

All in all, we've been very pleased with the Shorthorn crosses, and while we initially went to Shorthorn sires to infuse some 'maternal' traits for retained heifers... I'm convinced that the right Shorthorn bulls have great merit for beef producers as a way to produce really good stocker/feeder calves, as well.
Shorthorns are a great 'product', and I tout them at every opportunity... but as long as what commercial producers see are flowery puffed/fluffed show winners with 100+lb BWs, I'm afraid y'all are still gonna continue to struggle to maintain or gain any market share in the commercial beef industry. 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

You might want to look at the thread "my girls a few pics" a right here by Lynette Jane. Those are some of the better Angus xShort cattle you are going to see:and they are in basic copmercial conditions. She can tell you how the short cows that had those females are bred-and those are the bulls Id try-They go back to theseulls or derivtives of these bulls: Double Vision, AHL Lucky Ralph,Wymore, Elbee Throwback, or Lanes Colt,MB Steermaker,Double Trouble Gizmos Image, (if they are very deep bodied BCC Double Down etc.In other words-Lynette can tell u how to breed them and come up with 1s like the thread-any one of them would be competitive County Fair-or at a lot of State levels as Shorthorn PlussesO0

 

[sue]

COMMERCIAL outfit here, so my weigh-in here will have no relevance to what you're doing, but I'll offer it up just in the event that someone who's production-oriented might read this thread. 
We have used only solid red bulls, and mostly Waukaru sires, initially and principally because they were available from OriGen through my ABS rep - no shipping charges.
Base cowherd is mostly ~3/4AN-1/4SM, descended from my old haphazardly linebred Fleckvieh-influenced (sons & full sibs of ABR Sir Arnold G809) SimAngus herd.

Started out with Waukaru Gold Mine 2109, because of his high CED/low BW and all the horror stories we'd heard about Shorthorn BWs.  Easy-calving - I'd use that bull on ANY heifer.  Steers were good - really impressed on us that SH might also be a decent terminal cross... daughters are shaping up to be perhaps the best Shorthorn-cross cows in the herd... good dispositions, mostly good udders, producing nice calves.

Waukaru Gold Card 5042 - got used one season on mostly on low-end cows...I'm thinking that he didn't get a fair shake here; steers were average to good but out of less than stellar cows.  The two Gold Card daughters retained are shaping up to be good cows.  Will probably go back and use this bull again.

Waukaru Coppertop 464 - Steers were great!  Comparable to any high WW epd Simmental-sired calves out of the same group of cows.  Coppertop daughters just now really coming into production, but they look to be good, if a bit framier than the Gold Mines.

Waukaru Orion 2047 - Steers were the best we've ever raised.  March-borns weaned in Sept at 697# on grass and dam's milk.  First daughters will calve in a month or so.

Waukaru Patent 8161 - first calves here born this spring; they look great.

Rob Sneed '034' bull (RSDV 01 729 04 034) - steers were good; comparable to the Gold Mine calves born at the same time.  Daughters are really nice, wish I'd bought more semen when it was available.

Captain Obvious 606S - only used a half-cane...steers were so-so; one daughter died of tetanus prior to weaning, other is on her second calf, a Patent daughter that looks good.  The CO daughter is OK, but has a silhouette almost resembling a bison cow... not especially to my liking, but she's got a nice udder, raises good calves, and has done nothing to warrant going on the cull list.

All in all, we've been very pleased with the Shorthorn crosses, and while we initially went to Shorthorn sires to infuse some 'maternal' traits for retained heifers... I'm convinced that the right Shorthorn bulls have great merit for beef producers as a way to produce really good stocker/feeder calves, as well.
Shorthorns are a great 'product', and I tout them at every opportunity... but as long as what commercial producers see are flowery puffed/fluffed show winners with 100+lb BWs, I'm afraid y'all are still gonna continue to struggle to maintain or gain any market share in the commercial beef industry.

Lucky- I just read this and knew we had a conversasion about re ordering  RS 034 semen. In fact I have had a few calls since your fall emails. Rob Sneed has more semen and other purebred bulls stored at Genex. If you are reading this I apologize for the delay: Rob's health was not good  last fall to early spring. He is doing much better and would love to sell semen to anyone that inquired. His focus is not purebred shorthorn cattle rather commerical composites or red angus x shorthorn and a splash of gelvieh. If you have his cell phone number he would be happy to sell.  I should call my friends more often as I just learned of his health a few weeks ago.
As far as club calf steer makers- I like the Jazz suggestions and would agree the females are a nice replacements as well as competitive steers . Damn Proud is probably a stouter version as I am sure other sons of Jazz are on the market as well. Best of luck in your shorthorn advernture! 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

GET MY DRIFT? O0  Wanna see some grown up-? Check out My girls thread Lynette Jane-the Captains and Waukarus are good performance cattle-but they don't make calves like these O0