Shorthorn Cow Families

[RyanChandler]

A good cow family is only 25% of the equation.
25% cow
25% bull
25% feed and development program
25% marketing and selling to people who will take the calf to the next level.Best advertisement is to sell calves that work for your customers. 

Just because you buy a top of the line cow families will not guarantee success. I think it is important to make sure you get the other 3 areas in line and up to par before investing big dollars in cow families JMO. If you can't feed and develop them or market them after you feed them or know what bull will work on the type of cow then it is hard to sell the calves. 

Good bulls work on all cows. Their stabalized, prepotent genetics insure this.

 

[J2F]

A good cow family is only 25% of the equation.
25% cow
25% bull
25% feed and development program
25% marketing and selling to people who will take the calf to the next level.Best advertisement is to sell calves that work for your customers. 

Just because you buy a top of the line cow families will not guarantee success. I think it is important to make sure you get the other 3 areas in line and up to par before investing big dollars in cow families JMO. If you can't feed and develop them or market them after you feed them or know what bull will work on the type of cow then it is hard to sell the calves. 

Good bulls work on all cows. Their stabalized, prepotent genetics insure this.

I can agree a good bull can improve any cow's calf crop but a good bull on a  good cow that the mating compliments each others weaknesses and improves them will be a better calf than a good bull on a bad cow's calf. You can put a great beef bull on a jersey cow and a great beef calf it will not be. 

 

[frostback]

A good cow family is only 25% of the equation.
25% cow
25% bull
25% feed and development program
25% marketing and selling to people who will take the calf to the next level.Best advertisement is to sell calves that work for your customers. 

Just because you buy a top of the line cow families will not guarantee success. I think it is important to make sure you get the other 3 areas in line and up to par before investing big dollars in cow families JMO. If you can't feed and develop them or market them after you feed them or know what bull will work on the type of cow then it is hard to sell the calves. 

Good bulls work on all cows. Their stabalized, prepotent genetics insure this.

Ah hhahahahahah that actually made me laugh out loud.

 

[RyanChandler]

A good cow family is only 25% of the equation.
25% cow
25% bull
25% feed and development program
25% marketing and selling to people who will take the calf to the next level.Best advertisement is to sell calves that work for your customers. 

Just because you buy a top of the line cow families will not guarantee success. I think it is important to make sure you get the other 3 areas in line and up to par before investing big dollars in cow families JMO. If you can't feed and develop them or market them after you feed them or know what bull will work on the type of cow then it is hard to sell the calves. 

Good bulls work on all cows. Their stabilized, prepotent genetics insure this.

Ah hhahahahahah that actually made me laugh out loud.

Did you have any contradicting input or are you, as Knabe would said, just "attacking the brick man?"

 

[J2F]

A good cow family is only 25% of the equation.
25% cow
25% bull
25% feed and development program
25% marketing and selling to people who will take the calf to the next level.Best advertisement is to sell calves that work for your customers. 

Just because you buy a top of the line cow families will not guarantee success. I think it is important to make sure you get the other 3 areas in line and up to par before investing big dollars in cow families JMO. If you can't feed and develop them or market them after you feed them or know what bull will work on the type of cow then it is hard to sell the calves. 

Good bulls work on all cows. Their stabalized, prepotent genetics insure this.

I can agree a good bull can improve any cow's calf crop but a good bull on a  good cow that the mating compliments each others weaknesses and improves them will be a better calf than a good bull on a bad cow's calf. You can put a great beef bull on a jersey cow and a great beef calf it will not be. 

This is the philosophy Im talking about that should be avoided.  A much better approach is to breed to your ideal instead of trying to over compensate for this trait or that.

Ok I will bite, I am here to learn.( I feel like I am on big bang theory  and everyone is yelling at me for asking Sheldon why) but what is the difference in breeding to improve your cows weakest traits (I thought would be a no brain-er) and breeding to "your ideal". It seams that trait and "your ideal" would be synonyms?

 

[RyanChandler]

Your correct that they are synonyms.  Your initial statement was that "the mating should compliment "EACH OTHERS" weaknesses and improve them.  You should never sacrifice one trait for another but instead apply multiple trait selection.  For example if I have a cow that is huge bodied (even excessively) but strait legged, and I wanted to correct that, I would never breed her to a bull that I felt sacrificed volume in order to add a little set to the offsprings.  I would instead find a bull that had adequate volume while also possessing the correct leg set.  Just do some research on what opponents refer to as "fire and ice" matings-  these breeding practices should be avoided.  There is a reason it is a practice of hobbyist and not of professional cowmen.

 

[jaimiediamond]

I think that this is an interesting read regarding some Shorthorn cow families http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/top-10-shorthorn-cow-families/ this thread did end up going sideways but some great cow families were mentioned.

I actually believe that one can judge a bull on his mother.  Both the sire and the dam are genetically important, as each parent provides half of the genetic makeup of the ensuing offspring.  A strong cow family is a good start but you can only maintain the quality with consistent planning of each mating.

 

[J2F]

Your correct that they are synonyms.  Your initial statement was that "the mating should compliment "EACH OTHERS" weaknesses and improve them.  You should never sacrifice one trait for another but instead apply multiple trait selection.  For example if I have a cow that is huge bodied (even excessively) but strait legged, and I wanted to correct that, I would never breed her to a bull that I felt sacrificed volume in order to add a little set to the offsprings.  I would instead find a bull that had adequate volume while also possessing the correct leg set.  Just do some research on what opponents refer to as "fire and ice" matings-  these breeding practices should be avoided.  There is a reason it is a practice of hobbyist and not of professional cowmen.

OK I bow to the professional cowman. I start with stock yard scrubs and buy a couple generations of great bulls and make my cows excessively huge bodied, huge utters, straight legged and hopefully some day I too will be a professional cowman. Let us keep our fingers crossed (angel)

 

[J2F]

Back to my original point, I am not saying anyone on this thread is not experienced cattle people but when I started I was not( and still am not). I did not fully realize when I first started studying and shopping that it is more than just genetics to be successful in the cattle industry and just wanted to put out some food for thought. Some of these cow families can bring a hefty price and you need to have your ducks in a row before investing too much in to a great one IMO. I don't think great cow family's are a "scam" and defiantly think it takes a great bull to make great cow's but it also takes a great cow to produce a great bull for producing great heifers. So was it  the chicken or the egg.You could have a great set of heifers hit the ground but if you don't know how to care for them and get them to a sale with proper condition and training or ready to breed at yearling age then your going to have a tough time getting any set of genetics to work for you. IMO

 

[J2F]

I think that this is an interesting read regarding some Shorthorn cow families http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/top-10-shorthorn-cow-families/ this thread did end up going sideways but some great cow families were mentioned.

I actually believe that one can judge a bull on his mother.  Both the sire and the dam are genetically important, as each parent provides half of the genetic makeup of the ensuing offspring.  A strong cow family is a good start but you can only maintain the quality with consistent planning of each mating.

This is a great thread thanks Jamie!!!

 

[aj]

For the most part....cow families are a joke. Marketing tool.....a scam.....it's for the show ring loli poppers......the ivory tower people who drink wine wine spritzers and make love to their pedigree's at night. Nothing wrong wrong with a good 10 year old cow that is a great producer though. I have never once heard a rancher talk about cow families. They talk about sire groups. They talk about #'s of calves weaned off the maucher pasture(they tallie it every year). They talk about that pen 606 of feedlot cattle that did so well. Just my opinion.

 

[aj]

My opinion might not be a valid opinion but it is mine.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

http://www.shorthorncountry.net/sales_calendar.htm
Here's a sales list from Shorthorn Country web site of a lot of shorthorn sales. Also check Cagwin and Aegerter marketing to ask for catalogs for sales in your areas.You can also go to ASA web site and check members by state to find farms close to you.  Good luck and have fun this is a great breed to study and learn. /// Just dont expect Cagwin or Aegerter to give you a fair shake if you arent at the sale-BUY YOUR OWN CATTLE-Ive been doing this awhile O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

No worries, your opinion is astute and correct. // X Bar-are you using the bull in your Avatar?-I thiought Mathers had the no holds barred no semen ownership of him O0

 

[J2F]

For the most part....cow families are a joke. Marketing tool.....a scam.....it's for the show ring loli poppers......the ivory tower people who drink wine wine spritzers and make love to their pedigree's at night. Nothing wrong wrong with a good 10 year old cow that is a great producer though. I have never once heard a rancher talk about cow families. They talk about sire groups. They talk about #'s of calves weaned off the maucher pasture(they tallie it every year). They talk about that pen 606 of feedlot cattle that did so well. Just my opinion.

IMO if this is the case then see there is something the show side can bring to the commercial side of the spectrum and help out. I think tracking cow performance is important, If you have 300 cows it would be more realistic to track a cow family performance then each individual cow.

 

[RyanChandler]

For the most part....cow families are a joke. Marketing tool.....a scam.....it's for the show ring loli poppers......the ivory tower people who drink wine wine spritzers and make love to their pedigree's at night. Nothing wrong wrong with a good 10 year old cow that is a great producer though. I have never once heard a rancher talk about cow families. They talk about sire groups. They talk about #'s of calves weaned off the maucher pasture(they tallie it every year). They talk about that pen 606 of feedlot cattle that did so well. Just my opinion.

IMO if this is the case then see there is something the show side can bring to the commercial side of the spectrum and help out. I think tracking cow performance is important, If you have 300 cows it would be more realistic to track a cow family performance then each individual cow.

You're right about performance.  The only problem there is the people who speak in "cow family" terms have a different definition of what performance is.  I would go as far as to say people that speak in terms of "cow families" don't even record any performance measures- ce, bw, ww, yw, sc and so on.  And until the association makes this a mandatory performance reporting registry, there will never be any performance tracking on a great number of the animals within the breed  :-\

No worries, your opinion is astute and correct. // X Bar-are you using the bull in your Avatar?-I thiought Mathers had the no holds barred no semen ownership of him O0

No I'm not using him. Would have loved to.  I don't have any information on the bull other than when I visited Leveldale last summer.  Masterplan's calves were IMO easily the best there.  Most unfortunate part was almost all his calves I saw there were out of half blood calves.  Perhaps the heterosis played a big role in the superiority of those calves. Perhaps not.

 

[garybob]

I don't believe for a minute, that cow families don't matter to commercially-oriented purebred breeders. It'd make a whole lot more difference to someone with 75 papered (but unpampered) cows than, let's say, to another with 5 head that are tied, in some way or another to a Youth Project. However, as AJ said, the "BlueBloods" do factor in, as well to the "pomp & Pageantry" of promotion in the seedstock biz.

GB