Shorthorn Cow Maker

[frostback]

So its not so much breed character as to what or how you use them, they should look a certain way for that?

 

[GM]

I don't need to piss off anyone. Rather challenge you. When I think cow maker I think of Ohlde. Or Kent Powell. I'd agree with coyote  The problem for me is this breed doesnt produce very many cow maker bulls even tho it's a English breed. I got a catalog today. Big time deal. Whale assed bull with no nuts. Maybe it was cold I don't know but nothing in it said cow maker. It said hard doing, high input fantastic looking cattle. But high input. That's not how you go about breeding cow maker bulls. N Bar Emulation EXT anyone? Sitz Rainmaker? HA Image Maker? OCC Paxton?

Cow makers.

I tend to agree.  However, I would not classify that bull as "whale assed"...he's more like "Kardashian assed."  :-\ The crazy thing is his numbers (epds and actuals) look really good (except for sc), and his genetics are very common (KL on top (that goes back to dividend/rodeo/ayatollah) and trump/rose on bottom).  Albeit, "commercial acceptable" reputation on the top side and "show ring reputation" on the bottom side.  And and acceptable birth weight no less.  Kudos go to preparation and presentation...what if he was the missing link both sides are looking for...who knows, but i was intrigued nonetheless

 

[RyanChandler]

So its not so much breed character as to what or how you use them, they should look a certain way for that?

Absolutely. Form follows function.

 

[frostback]

So then why was it bad when you have a Charolais that looks like a angus and people are using him to get replacements? Shouldn't you have some lines be a bit more maternal in every breed to keep the breed going? If they were all coarse and more performance how would a breed continue? Are there not performance/number lines in the angus?

 

[Thomas]

So then why was it bad when you have a Charolais that looks like a Angus and people are using him to get replacements? Shouldn't you have some lines be a bit more maternal in every breed to keep the breed going? If they were all coarse and more performance how would a breed continue? Are there not performance/number lines in the Angus?

Honestly, There is many performance lines in the Angus... As a matter of fact anymore other than a few of the Angus breeders focused on the "COW" Most Angus lines have lost all breed character.  Today's Angus cow is actually larger (heavier) than the first Continental Cows that came over in the late 70s - early 80s.  Also, The shorthorn breed has lost much of its breed character with the influence of MAINES.  If you go back and look at some of the old Shorthorn Worlds from the 70's there was cows all over the place like the ones we are trying to make today.  Now, I think we all have a couple of the cows that we want but it is very hard to make a herd of them.  We need to try to develop a bull using some of today's with some of yesterdays lines.  Also, he is going to have to be linebred to develop any consistency.  And preferably we could skip everything that happened in the frame race of the 80s. 

So back to the original question... who is the best cow maker.  How about the "Easy" bull of Larson's?  He should give many of the needed traits and should help with fleshing ability. I love the udders from the video but they may lack some eye appeal and they looked like they had plenty of leg under them.  That could also be coming from the cows out there Maybe??? Not sure about that.

 

[RyanChandler]

So then why was it bad when you have a Charolais that looks like a angus and people are using him to get replacements?

Because its fundamentally wrong for a Char to look like Angus.  Their purposes should literally be opposites.  SPECIALIZE.

 

[Lucky_P]

Commercial deal here; no show or clubby stuff.  Grew up with Hereford(horned & polled) cattle, infused Angus, and later, Simbrah (was located in the Gulf Coastal South).
Have been breeding my own Simmental/SimAngus/Angus cattle for 30 years - always breeding for the female side of the equation, but making sure the steer counterparts weren't throw-aways.  About 4 years ago, we started using a few red Shorthorn sires over high-percentage Angus cows, and have been pleased with the results; steers have been good, heifers are looking like they're gonna make pretty good cows.
Recommendations from a number of folks here on SP have been instrumental in helping me make what look to be workable sire selections.

Do any of y'all consider the new $BMI (British Maternal Index) in your breeding selection? 
The SH bulls we've used or considered using - for a balance of CE/BW, WW, MCE have all happened to fall, for the most part, into the top 5% of the breed for $BMI.
Any thoughts on whether that index is of any value if you were looking for a 'cow-maker' bull?

 

[RyanChandler]

What bulls have you used? If you put much weight on $BMI, the Waukaru bulls are second to none.  Saw several w/ +50 $BMI in their upcoming sale.

 

[leanbeef]

Today's Angus cow is actually larger (heavier) than the first Continental Cows that came over in the late 70s - early 80s. 

Just an FYI...the continental breeds first arrived in North America in the 1960s. Maybe they weren't extremely popular in your neck of the woods until the late 70s and early 80s, but they were here, and they were pretty prevalent. We started breeding Simmental in 1971.

 

[RyanChandler]

Today's Angus cow is actually larger (heavier) than the first Continental Cows that came over in the late 70s - early 80s. 

Just an FYI...the continental breeds first arrived in North America in the 1960s. Maybe they weren't extremely popular in your neck of the woods until the late 70s and early 80s, but they were here, and they were pretty prevalent. We started breeding Simmental in 1971.

Texans were smuggling Fullbloods (Char) in from Mexico 20 years earlier than that 

 

[Lucky_P]

XBar,
Have used several Waukaru bulls - have milking daughters of Goldmine 2109, bred daughters of Coppertop 464, and bred some cows to Gold Card 5042 this fall.
Have also used Captain Obvious and the Rob Sneed '034' bull - have fall calves on the ground by them, and more due in the next week.
Looking at several more SH bulls to trial over the next year or two.

 

[oakview]

If the Charolais were coming in from Mexico so long ago, would they be, in fact, the original illegal aliens?  Would they be included in the proposed amnesty bill?  Were any of them among those recently released due to the government budget fiasco?  I will never look at a smokey the same again.