Shorthorn cross calf and Sire pics - what do you think?
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OH Breeder
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I don't know a ton about Devon breed but I know they are geared toward grass fed beef. I would say for "show ring" she might not work due to the lack of condition and overrall eye appeal. From a breed perspective when you look at the Devon cattle she isn't extremely different from breed standard. I would put some weight on her and re-evaluate her plan. What is your goal for her?
BogartBlondes
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If she was a bit bigger boned I would like her a lot more. She does fit the Devon breed characteristic though. I might consider breeding her to a clubby/Maine bull when the time comes, something with some bone. <cowboy>
She looks better when is is not -20F out 
. I am hoping to breed her back Devon, as we are selling meat and not bone. Devons are really light boned till they get to a year or so, then they really fill out, but they are still a light boned breed. Here is a picture of her before she put on her hair, she is one month old. Also a picture of her sire. what do you think of him?
. I am hoping to breed her back Devon, as we are selling meat and not bone. Devons are really light boned till they get to a year or so, then they really fill out, but they are still a light boned breed. Here is a picture of her before she put on her hair, she is one month old. Also a picture of her sire. what do you think of him?Attachments
BogartBlondes
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By the pictures she needs to see a feed bucket. My 6 month old calves are pushing 700 lbs. with no creep, only mommas milk and hay. Are Devon's characteristically harder to get weight on? I'm not too familiar with the breed, enough to know that they are really light boned though.
OLD WORLD SHORTIE
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She is light in her weightt, but those picture angles just make it look even worse.
Duncraggan
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Only you farm on your property, I think it is unreasonable to project your weights onto another property, let alone another breed. Feed buckets reduce profit, no argument!BogartBlondes said:
As far as I know, Devons are a fairly large British breed that has been around for centuries and there is no reason to change it into a large boned animal of another colour as many breeds have been 'morphed' in the USA.
Not all cattle must look like 'clubby' show calves, if you are making a profit, good for you, if not, change your business model!
librarian
Well-known member
My original bull for raising grass fed beef was a Devon, very similar in type to your bull. He was a cross of the Rotokawa and Lakota strains. This bull took a full four years to get his growth and his calves were consistently light in the hindquarters and slow growers. I was making Angus crosses. Shorthorn crosses I have made over the same cows have grown much better. The quality of the Devon cross beef was excellent, not well marbled but tender and flavorful. At the time I did not believe that breed made a real difference in beef quality, but now I think otherwise. I am putting up a picture of my bull so you can see that the type is consistent and if there is a problem, perhaps is is the dam of the calf not being milky enough or parasites. I believe Devons are better suited to warmer climates.
Despite the slow growth, I actually bought my Devon bull back to make some Galloway crosses with to see it the fine texture of the Devon beef and the marbling qualities of the Galloway will make a premium carcass.
Despite the slow growth, I actually bought my Devon bull back to make some Galloway crosses with to see it the fine texture of the Devon beef and the marbling qualities of the Galloway will make a premium carcass.
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BogartBlondes
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Not all cattle must look like 'clubby' show calves, if you are making a profit, good for you, if not, change your business model!
[/quote]
Ditto!
[/quote]
Ditto!
librarian
Well-known member
I have some neighbors that raise North Devons and that is how I ended up with a Devon bull calf back when. I study their calves every year to see how the breeding is going with different AI Devon sires. If you are going back on this heifer with Devon, Rotokawa 93 definitely adds the most muscle, but the calves are big. (too big) 688 offspring always appeal to to me, especially the daughters. But the calves that seem to have the most all around balance are out of 243. My bull was out of 982.
As far as I know, Devons are a fairly large British breed that has been around for centuries and there is no reason to change it into a large boned animal of another colour as many breeds have been 'morphed' in the USA.
Not all cattle must look like 'clubby' show calves, if you are making a profit, good for you, if not, change your business model!
[/quote]
Agree
Not all cattle must look like 'clubby' show calves, if you are making a profit, good for you, if not, change your business model!
[/quote]
Agree
Librarian: Her sire is a son of #688. 688 was probably the best Devon bull around. He exceed in everything except one: They did not draw enough semen on him
I think that 93 is a little to tall and boney but if you look at the papers of 688, 93, 243 you will see that it is 243 son of 93 son of 688.
Devons have not been outbred and crossbred like all the other breeds in Canada and the USA. They are still genetically pure. Also they are smaller boned, as some of you have noticed. I think the reason is because the original breeders were smart enough to know that we can't eat bone. (lol) They have been bred for hundreds of years to produce meat on forage.
More about Devons http://reddevonusa.com/why-devon/ http://americanherbataurus.com/ahs/why-rotokawa
I think that 93 is a little to tall and boney but if you look at the papers of 688, 93, 243 you will see that it is 243 son of 93 son of 688.
Devons have not been outbred and crossbred like all the other breeds in Canada and the USA. They are still genetically pure. Also they are smaller boned, as some of you have noticed. I think the reason is because the original breeders were smart enough to know that we can't eat bone. (lol) They have been bred for hundreds of years to produce meat on forage.
mooch said:
More about Devons http://reddevonusa.com/why-devon/ http://americanherbataurus.com/ahs/why-rotokawa
RyanChandler
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librarian
Well-known member
I have read, in multiple forgotten places, that the "natives" of Britain fled their continental invaders, taking their cattle with them to areas of marginal unproductive soil. Being a cattle culture, their cattle were driven before them and there occurred a mixing of previously separated regional land races that adapted to their new local environments. These aboriginal cattle were said to be red. As I understand it, modern DNA analysis groups the red cattle of Great Britain into a genetically related group originating from Scandinavia.
Anyway, I like the old story, in which Welsh cattle, driven to the rocky hills of Cornwall and Northern Devonshire influenced the red cattle of that region. The hardiness and grass fattening qualities of Devon's have been attributed to this Welsh influence.
Quote from William Youatt, Cattle: Their Breeds, Management, and Diseases
http://books.google.com/books?id=HCBCAAAAcAAJ&dq=welsh%20devon%20cattle&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q=welsh%20devon%20cattle&f=false
Anyway, I like the old story, in which Welsh cattle, driven to the rocky hills of Cornwall and Northern Devonshire influenced the red cattle of that region. The hardiness and grass fattening qualities of Devon's have been attributed to this Welsh influence.
Quote from William Youatt, Cattle: Their Breeds, Management, and Diseases
http://books.google.com/books?id=HCBCAAAAcAAJ&dq=welsh%20devon%20cattle&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q=welsh%20devon%20cattle&f=false
Attachments
There is quite the history behind Devons. This is a consolidated history of Devons from the early 1800s
Devons were next to Shorthorns in numbers until the feed lots came in. In 1948 the feedlot paradigm was set in motion, and 15 years later cattle that would finish on grass had all but disappeared from the pastures in North America. The feedlots want tall, framey cattle that they could put in the feedlot on grain for 120 to 150 days.
In 1836, James Busby, who was a settler in Waitanga, in the Bay of Islands, brought 20 Devon heifers and one Devon bull to New Zealand from England. Devon’s continued to grow in popularity there until the 1920’s, where they were used as oxen for hauling Kauri logs. Their resistance to disease and tolerance to all weather allowed their survival in small pockets.
In 1972, Mr D.J. Gilbert started a movement to re-establish the Devon throughout New Zealand. He acquired Devon’s from any herd he could find. He was active in starting the Devon Breed Society in New Zealand.
Master breeder Ken McDowall lived at Rotokawa Farm in Whanganui, New Zealand, managing a flock of sheep and a herd of cattle for the owner. In 1975, he bought 35 Devon’s and for 30 years, with careful breeding and constant improvement, he created an astounding subset of the Devon breed.
Gearld Fry, Ridge Sinn and Chuck Lacy of Bakewell Reproductive Center in Hardwick, Massachusetts, had found that Devon’s had better grazing genetics. Therefore they isolated some cows, but still could not find any really good bulls. In 2002 they sent Gearld Fry, an Arkansas beef genetics expert, on a mission to find some of the best Devon bulls in the world. Gearld went to New Zealand and met Master breeder Ken McDowall in Wanaganui. There he saw Ken’s herd of Rotokawa Devon’s, a subset of the Devon breed. Gearld Fry explained his mission. ”And I do believe I have found them!” he told Ken McDowall. Gearld continued looking over all of New Zealand and Australia and did not find better cattle than the Rotokawa Devon Cattle.
Bakewell Reproductive center bought 12,000 semen straws from Ken. They started breeding their Devon cows and the next year they imported 13 in-calf Rotokawa Devon heifers from Ken McDowall. They flushed their embryos and implanted them into other cows to introduce the Rotokawa Devon’s to North American cattlemen quickly.
Five years later, in 2008, Ken McDowall was going to retire and the new owner wanted to farm commercially. Ken McDowall called Ridge Shinn and asked him if he would buy his herd. He did not hesitate. “Yes”, he said. Ridge Shinn and Chuck Lacy formed the Rotokawa Cattle Company to purchase the herd. But how to get 83 cows and 8 bulls to Massachusetts? No one had ever brought so many cattle into the USA. The best way was by plane with Ken McDowall. The cattle were quarantined in New Zealand for 60 days first. They were then put onto two 747’s in special two-story crates. It was a 14-hour flight from New Zealand to Los Angeles. In California they were quarantined for 45 days and spent two months recuperating from the journey. They were then ready for the 5-day journey across the U.S. to Massachusetts.
Ridge Shinn now has 160 Rotokawa Devon’s on his farm. Ridge is a part-owner of a small meat-plant and has been keeping track of the meat yield of each animal. With half blood Rotokawa bulls he got 3-5 percent more meat in high-end cuts. It does not sound like much, but its $300 extra per animal.
Devons were next to Shorthorns in numbers until the feed lots came in. In 1948 the feedlot paradigm was set in motion, and 15 years later cattle that would finish on grass had all but disappeared from the pastures in North America. The feedlots want tall, framey cattle that they could put in the feedlot on grain for 120 to 150 days.
In 1836, James Busby, who was a settler in Waitanga, in the Bay of Islands, brought 20 Devon heifers and one Devon bull to New Zealand from England. Devon’s continued to grow in popularity there until the 1920’s, where they were used as oxen for hauling Kauri logs. Their resistance to disease and tolerance to all weather allowed their survival in small pockets.
In 1972, Mr D.J. Gilbert started a movement to re-establish the Devon throughout New Zealand. He acquired Devon’s from any herd he could find. He was active in starting the Devon Breed Society in New Zealand.
Master breeder Ken McDowall lived at Rotokawa Farm in Whanganui, New Zealand, managing a flock of sheep and a herd of cattle for the owner. In 1975, he bought 35 Devon’s and for 30 years, with careful breeding and constant improvement, he created an astounding subset of the Devon breed.
Gearld Fry, Ridge Sinn and Chuck Lacy of Bakewell Reproductive Center in Hardwick, Massachusetts, had found that Devon’s had better grazing genetics. Therefore they isolated some cows, but still could not find any really good bulls. In 2002 they sent Gearld Fry, an Arkansas beef genetics expert, on a mission to find some of the best Devon bulls in the world. Gearld went to New Zealand and met Master breeder Ken McDowall in Wanaganui. There he saw Ken’s herd of Rotokawa Devon’s, a subset of the Devon breed. Gearld Fry explained his mission. ”And I do believe I have found them!” he told Ken McDowall. Gearld continued looking over all of New Zealand and Australia and did not find better cattle than the Rotokawa Devon Cattle.
Bakewell Reproductive center bought 12,000 semen straws from Ken. They started breeding their Devon cows and the next year they imported 13 in-calf Rotokawa Devon heifers from Ken McDowall. They flushed their embryos and implanted them into other cows to introduce the Rotokawa Devon’s to North American cattlemen quickly.
Five years later, in 2008, Ken McDowall was going to retire and the new owner wanted to farm commercially. Ken McDowall called Ridge Shinn and asked him if he would buy his herd. He did not hesitate. “Yes”, he said. Ridge Shinn and Chuck Lacy formed the Rotokawa Cattle Company to purchase the herd. But how to get 83 cows and 8 bulls to Massachusetts? No one had ever brought so many cattle into the USA. The best way was by plane with Ken McDowall. The cattle were quarantined in New Zealand for 60 days first. They were then put onto two 747’s in special two-story crates. It was a 14-hour flight from New Zealand to Los Angeles. In California they were quarantined for 45 days and spent two months recuperating from the journey. They were then ready for the 5-day journey across the U.S. to Massachusetts.
Ridge Shinn now has 160 Rotokawa Devon’s on his farm. Ridge is a part-owner of a small meat-plant and has been keeping track of the meat yield of each animal. With half blood Rotokawa bulls he got 3-5 percent more meat in high-end cuts. It does not sound like much, but its $300 extra per animal.
The post started out by asking what was thought of this heifer calf, someone gave their opinion then it became a breed discussion. If this heifer pictured represent the breed not impressed.
Well if I was looking at this heifer as a replacement she would probably go in the sell pen, she lacks depth and width, is very light muscled. I am not looking for HeatWave muscle, but some muscle. She does not appera to have any lower quarter (hatchet butt). It was stated that you do not eat bone that is true, but not much you can do with the air between the ground and her belly and there appears to be a lot of that as well.
The other Devon cattle pictured look fine, they are functional and have some meat and body to them, this heifer does not . Could have been her mother was a poor milker, a good reason not to keep her if you wanted her as a replacement, now if she was ill, poor environment or has not been wormed she may look better later, but right now not impressed. At a year old she may look completely different, right now not so much.
Not knocking your breed, I agree with the bone thing, just want some meat on the bones, no matter how fine they are.
Well if I was looking at this heifer as a replacement she would probably go in the sell pen, she lacks depth and width, is very light muscled. I am not looking for HeatWave muscle, but some muscle. She does not appera to have any lower quarter (hatchet butt). It was stated that you do not eat bone that is true, but not much you can do with the air between the ground and her belly and there appears to be a lot of that as well.
The other Devon cattle pictured look fine, they are functional and have some meat and body to them, this heifer does not . Could have been her mother was a poor milker, a good reason not to keep her if you wanted her as a replacement, now if she was ill, poor environment or has not been wormed she may look better later, but right now not impressed. At a year old she may look completely different, right now not so much.
Not knocking your breed, I agree with the bone thing, just want some meat on the bones, no matter how fine they are.
Her Dam is a Milking Shorthorn heifer so that is part of it, the other part is the picture angle. She is i quite good shape, you have to see her to really see it. The Devon breed tends to fill out more after 10 months. And she has meat/fat on her bones (clapping)
RyanChandler
Well-known member
Do you at least acknowledge the difference in quality between the bull in your aviator and the heifer calf you posted?
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