Shorthorn dispersal

[oakview]

John's a good businessman as were the generations of Hagies before him.  United Hagie seed corn, Hagie Manufacturing, Stronghold Equipment, etc.  If he has a reason to disperse, it's his decision and I can see no need for conjecture.  I have 80+ year old Shorthorn World magazines with Hagie Shorthonn ads in them.  Very few herds/families are involved even 5 years.  What the Hagies have done is remarkable. 

 

[oakview]

If you are interested in more information, google United Hagie Seed Corn or Hagie Manufacturing and check out some history. 

 

[Duncraggan]

This is something I note regularly on SteerPlanet, it is worse than women at a hairdresser, a kind of broken telephone scenario! Often combined with the 'empty vessels make the most noise' analogy!
Before passing any more comments, I have been a S.C. subscriber for 5-6 years and from that I can only summise that Mr. Hagie has been a great contributor to the breed for many years.
Seeing pictures of him in S.C. he does not appear to be a man in his early years. Pedigree livestock breeding is not a business that can be 'corporatized' and I feel that you need to get out at the top of your game. If you have daughters, like me, or if your sons are not interested in farming/Shorthorns, what better way to get out! His other businesses, from previous posts on this topic, appear to be entities that one could 'corporatize'. The man will leave his legacy and that is what we all strive to achieve, I hope.
I feel that some of the previous comments have been unwarranted and that although syndicating bulls was a good idea in the past, it has probably passed its 'window of opportunity' with the advent of WHR.
Without prejudice to anyone, I think the future will be for quality, commercially orientated bulls with figures of high accuracy, not those used by a few select breeders and 'hyped up' as mentioned in previous posts. Breeders/owners of good commercially orientate bulls should be selling large quantities at 'reasonable' prices to get the figures reliable, then up the prices as the accuracy improves.
I await some interesting changes, already evident, in the ASA with the current CEO/Executive Secretary and the progressive Board

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Well put Duncraggen-although things for effect or otherwise got a little off kilter-I dont think anyone was really questioning Hagies decision to disperse or his integrity etc-and it got off track from the basic ideas you have put forthL which sum things up pretty well jmo.No one needs to justify a reason etc. for a decision like that to anyone other than thier inner circle if warrented by agreements-And no one else really has the right to speculate why Cyclone Trace is selling out. O0

 

[TPX]

https://www.realagriculture.com/2016/03/deere-acquires-majority-ownership-sprayer-maker-hagie-manufacturing/

 

[OH Breeder]

Isn't CYT just recycled Sullivan and Cates the usual me to breeding programs?/// YOU GOT IT-ALONG WITH ALL THE "SYNDICATED BULLS" all 3 seem to own O0

It seems to me that they have all had a fair bit of success so what is the problem? There is no rule or law that says you have to ever use any of the genetics they use. Why do so many people have to complain and/or gossip about those who have been successful? Is it because they can't compete with their success and they make attempts to bring them down to their level, or is it just envoy of their successes? I will never understand,  that if they are wrong and you are smarter and know what they are doing wrong, why you people don't just get with the program and make better cattle? I get so tired of people complaining and doing nothing to correct what they see as being wrong. You apparently have an issue with syndicated bulls. If you have no desire to ever be involved with one of these bulls, how does it affect you?  I guess complaining is just so much easier than actually doing something to change all the wrongs you have identified. Sometimes I wonder what it would actually be like to come here and actually see a bunch of positive comments rather than the negativity that seems to drive so many. Quite frankly, it is getting rather sickening!
Personally, I am a bit sad to see Cyclone Trace disperse. I think John Hagie is one of the nicest men I have ever known in the cattle industry. I am thankful for what he has done and I think he will be missed. He designed a breeding program that did what it was designed to do. The Cyclone Trace herd had many successes over the years, and they should be very proud. It was a wonderful sight to attend one of their sales and see families going through the sale pens and sorting the cattle. He had a real heart for juniors and I can think of few who did so much to help junior programs.  Many of the cattle they produced were not what I was looking for in my breeding program, but I did purchase a couple females that have been very good producers for me.
But life goes on, and change is constant. This would be a perfect time for someone to design a good breeding program. It doesn't have to be the same as that designed by John Hagie and his crew. Design your own program and build some useful cattle.//// I almost never bring my cattle or background into the arena:and my exploits all over the planet BUT THIS TIME I WILL-One of the major familes and HAGIES HERD BULL ARE GRANDSONS AND DAUGHTERS OF UB MAD MAX AS IN CYT MAXIM, AND THE MAX ROSA FAMILIES.-A GUY IN VA NAMED MARK TENENBAUM RAISED HIM FROM AN EMBRYO-AND WITH LAWRENCE GRATHWOHL WON ALMOST EVERY NATIONAL SHOW THAT YEAR.BUT MAX STARTED OUT SLOW AND ONLY ONE PERSON REALLY THOUGHT ANYTHING OF HIM AS A CALF-WHICH WAS FRANK KAELERS DAUGHTER-WE BOTH CONCURRED THAT HE NEEDED SOME GUTS ETC-BUT WITH THE MARK 4 AND CANADIAN BACK THERE HE SURE OUGHTA WORK WITH HOMEDALE FLASH-AND THATS WHERE THE MAX ROSA CAME FROM.SO ALTHOUGH IM NOT A FASHIONABLE FOLLOWER ETC-THERES A PART OF ME IN THAT SALE O0

Thank you Mr. Tenebaum for the history lesson. Thank you for your dedication to the shorthorn breed. I think you always post something that has food for thought.

 

[aj]

Got a catalog in mail. Some lots have a CYT prefix. A hand full of lots have one parent with a CYT prefix. Most lots don't have any parents with a CYT prefix. Why are there more cattle.......females 3,4,5 year old females for sale with a CYT prefix? Did they sell all of the heifer calves over the year. It looks like to me that the biggest draw of the sale is the opportunity is to buy Sullivan and Cates bloodlines. Alot of embryo's and semen offered......

 

[knabe]

Just think. You could have called and seen if there was some and bought some and dilute your Maine and red angus. As usual, a negative implication.

 

[oakview]

There are lots of herds that have only one or two generations of their own breeding in their sale cattle, including a few that some of you on here promote as being "great commercial oriented breeders."  I certainly like to see as many home raised generations as possible to illustrate a breeding program, but there is something to be said for those that can identify cattle that fit their purpose, purchase them, and produce the desired product.  And sell it for a good price, I might add.  It is apparent from their track record that the people at CYT did a commendable job of using the genetics they needed to produce what they wanted.  There are several "commercial" oriented breeders that are quite adept at doing the same thing. 

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

These are show cattle bred to win cattle shows. These cattle are line bred and do exhibit a lot of predictability with continued line breeding. Yes the heifers get sold as show animals for a lot more then chump money at the county sale barn. This is what happens when you actually excel at maximizing profit. Who cares if you want to see the prefix back a few generations, raising cattle is a business and this family has been doing it for a long time in one way or another. Clearly a lot better then the experts on here. 

 

[RyanChandler]

This is what happens when you actually excel at maximizing profit revenue.

A dispersal?

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

Yes this is a dispersal and they have had previous sales in which I'm sure they had good profit margins. Buying donors and haveing good recipes tends to do that in the show cattle business.
Anyone can have a good set of revenue numbers, but if your cost of doing business is to high it deminishes profit. 101 ..
I love hearing about total sales numbers, but I always wonder how money they actually made. Some of these big operations have a lot of money going to accounts payable.

 

[aj]

I think it is amazing that with the new technologies.......you could be breeder of the year or whatever and not own a cow. We have come a long way with the technologies and I think even farther with nutrition. They say you can start young calves on creep feed and whole corn and this will max out say their marbling ability. Even commercial guys have done this when shooting for say the certified Angus beef market. Sometimes it will pencil out and sometimes it don't.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Yes this is a dispersal and they have had previous sales in which I'm sure they had good profit margins. Buying donors and haveing good recipes tends to do that in the show cattle business.
Anyone can have a good set of revenue numbers, but if your cost of doing business is to high it deminishes profit. 101 ..
I love hearing about total sales numbers, but I always wonder how money they actually made. Some of these big operations have a lot of money going to accounts payable./// YEA AND ALOT OF MONEY IN THE "CLOUD" GOING TO ACCOUNTS TRADEABLE O0

 

[knabe]

I think it is amazing that with the new technologies.......you could be breeder of the year or whatever and not own a cow.

sheesh, they could even take a carrier to denver.

 

[cpubarn]

Did some of  you shorthorn guys, lamenting the modest comercial  viability of your cattle, ever stop to think that since the cattle business is really a people business, that your attitude may be a bigger problem than your cattle?

This diatribe has lasted nearly a decade on this site and has not brought up anything new.  Ever wonder why everyone is gone?

 

[aj]

The commercial cattle business is not a people business.......its a dollar and cents business. I would guess that maybe 1 out of 100,000 cattle producers visit steerplanet dot com. I don't see that your argument is valid. It is a good ploy to try and control discussions.

 

[knabe]

I know right?  Meanwhile, you bash the show industry again and can't see the irony that you advocate for controlling them.

Seriously, your hypocrisy is topped by no one.

 

[justintime]

The commercial cattle business is not a people business.......its a dollar and cents business. I would guess that maybe 1 out of 100,000 cattle producers visit steerplanet dot com. I don't see that your argument is valid. It is a good ploy to try and control discussions.

Oh I have to disagree with this statement big time!  The commercial cattle business is without any doubt a people business as well as a dollars and cents business. I have seen many commercial producers drive past many breeders farms, who have good breeding stock ( often several hundreds of miles) to buy at another breeders place, simply because of the people... not the cattle. Every part of this business has a people component. Treating people fairly, customer service and honest cattle will always sell faster and better than cattle of similar type that are owned by a person who does not offer these same things. Your integrity, and how you treat people are two of the most important things you need to make a sale. Of course, quality of the product is also important. This is no different than deciding where you are going to buy your next vehicle or tractor. Two different dealers will have the same product but you will instinctively buy from the one with the best reputation and service. The cattle business is no different.
It is the same in the purebred side as well. Personally, I have driven right by some people's places that I know have very good cattle, and in some cases purchased cattle several hundred miles further from here, because I like the people who own them, and I trust them and believe them when they tell me something. It has little to do with the cattle themselves and everything to do with the people who own them. You will never convince me, that purebred and commercial people alike buy cattle from people they trust and like. You may have great cattle but if you have questionable character or reputation, you will have to work twice as hard to get them sold.

 

[justintime]

I just don't get why anyone is concerned about what is or isn't in a dispersal sale. In this case, Cyclone Trace did what they wanted to do, and they were very successful at what they did. They were great for this business, and they will be missed. Their support of young breeders was amazing. They raised what they wanted to raise and had fun doing it. They developed a super reputation for honest dealings and now the time has come for them to leave this business. We should all dream of having this kind of success! John Hagie, his family and his team have done it all. I am sad to see them disperse, because of what they did and know that they will be missed. I don't think anyone has the right to try to pull them down to their level. If you don't want to buy what they have accumulated for their dispersal, well then just stay home and wish them all the best and say a simple " thank you" for what they have done.