Shorthorn questions...

[katie_k]

what are some good things about beef shorthorns?
what are some bad things about beef shorthorns?
what is a good color for showing?
any other info?

this is my first year showing beef shorthorns and i want to make sure i know what i am getting myself into.

 

[aj]

I think a nice even roan is supposed to be a popular color.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

They are gentle for the most part-and structurally very correct-,are the sharpest of show when you get a good one,they grade as good as anything but it seems like they will never get any credit in the commercial sector-they are starting to get bred too much alike-and although people like Sue AJ and others on SP are working hard at it-the overall birthwieghts are unacceptible-and the so-called sale management only cater to new people that dont know anything-or a continually shrinking clique-they will not help you sell ANYTHING. Bottom line-people on here will help you improve bws-and keep em thick-certain clubby lines are the way to go-mixed with the right breeding type bulls. O0

 

[peachy]

Mark - you nailed that right on the head.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Very well put Mark.  Shorthorngirl, if you want to raise clubby then there is plenty of people who have Trump derived genetics of some sort. Sonny females make smokin show heifers. These cattle require lots of groceries to maintain themselves but man they sure look good when they are shown. These cattle tend to have higher bw as well. Many commercial people have had a bad expierence with shorthorns or have heard a story. As far as being commercially accepted, I think the day is coming with the information to back up shorthorns as being one of the BEST grading breeds of cattle. Jakes Proud Jazz is maybe the first shorthorn bull to bridge the gap. Very acceptable birth weights. Not a real growy bull but he has his place for sure. Captain Obvious is a great option for easy keeping light birth cattle. Lots of shorthorn breeders on here that would be willing to help "steer" you in the right direction. I wish when I first started raising cattle  I knew what I know now or knew about steer planet lol. Knowledge is power, so take your time and look around. Lakeside Farms, Leveldale, Rob Sneed, A@T CattleCo, S@J Cattleco, Meadowlane Farms, Hub Ranch are all breeders that IMO are at the forefront of the commercial push for shorties. Sullivan's, Cates, Greenhorn's, Schrag's,  Kolt Cattleco, WHR, V8 are the elite of the show genetics IMO. Good luck to you and I hope you have as much fun with them as I have had!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Well put by Trevor too-Ive really tried to moderate BWS and have showy ones-unfortunately most of my herd is gone-I do however have a couple left-and most of my last calves went to Texas-where I hope they are bred a little differently-to achieve a balance-Right now the worst part about it-is alot of the calving ease shorthorns flat DO NOT HAVE ANY PERFORMANCE.SUES cattle-and a really good red young bull of Trevors,are getting there pretty quick. There are some Enticer based cattle-Stemming from Byland Gold Dust-on top of other Enticer deals(Arsulu Osage,Arsulu Massive)and some of the Kieth Lauer-Loving deals-along of course with some up and coming Canadian Cattle-the Gus Bulls-derivtives (Kansas and elsewhere) ,the really cool Busters-and some of JITS deals that we cant get-but we could really  use.Elbee has probably made as much of a mark for good thick functional cattle as all of the aforementioned-and I will allways have some of that going on. I saw an incredibly cool white Canadian  bull on the thread the other day(shorthorn folks) that Flat blows me away-but is (only) 55 inches tall,and no relation to whats down here (to the best of my knowledge) My preference as such-will be to go back and try to rebuild through et-on the few good females-or calves sold  out of my deal.they are clubby-but clean-can raise a caf-and NONE were over 80 pounds.-The Canadian deals will definitely play a part=along with the aforementioned. Personally-the most intriguing cattle have been in Iowa for quite some time-Kansas too-just not the numbers.One example might be Kourthauses wound up cool clubby females Bred to Arsulu osage-some very impressive cattle to me,and of course Studers-probably one of the better herds of shorthorns anywhere-they bred kinda clubby-canadian-old beef etc-cant say enuff,they quietly have allways been ahead of the curve. O0

 

[NHR]

I cant let some of the comments go by without a response.

We have several Trump influenced cattle in our heard and they are not clubby. We have several Sonny/Sonny Duece cattle and they do not require a lot of groceries for up keep. For instance my daughters current show heifer is a Sonny Duece out of our donor JCS Cumberland Duchess. She is extremely easy fleshing. We can only feed her 12 pounds of show feed per day because she is so easy fleshing. Of course we feed a good show ration. A lot of the criticism of the Sonny cattle should also include the type of cows he has been used on. No bull can improve a bad cow in one generation!

Here is my thoughts of breeding Shorthorns:
Shorthorn cattle work best when linebred. In most cases when an outcross is introduced the resulting offspring is a train wreck. However when that offspring is bred back into the line the resulting offspring is lights out good. For instance I have seen Ar Su Lu Osage (low birth weight outcross)  used on Trump bred cattle and the calves have the tendency to push the 100lb range. The one outcross bull that seems to work across lines is Jakes Proud Jazz. The best cattle that I have seen no matter what blood lines will have the same sire in their pedigree 3 times.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I have had Cumberlands since 1991-the first one was a Rodeo Gregg-as hard doing as one could imagine-Her daughter by Ecodale Topdraft-was not quite so bad-Her daughter-by Studly-is the easiest keeper I had till she passed away recently-What I mean by clubby is a mixture of Irsh and old fullblood Maine-There is a pic of a Free For All-(Sonny-Vision-Draftpick)caf posted by nck21-she is 4 months old-no creep-looks to wiegh close to 500 pounds-and out of a straight beef cow who is sired by a son of Huberdale pm Laura.So it depends on the cow-sonny was a cool looking dude out of pretty hard doing genetics-fastrac-rodeo-etc.I think they need a little maine in em.Alm chiller is a good example-they are definitely easy keeping. O0

 

[[email protected]]

They are easy to catch cause they are always standing at the gate waiting to be fed.  LOL ;D

 

[mark tenenbaum]

They are easy to catch cause they are always standing at the gate waiting to be fed.  LOL ;D
My cattle lived at Deertrail Ranch in Ks-and that was a very harsh envirinment-ask Gary Bucholtz-or any number of southern cattle people who went there.

 

[[email protected]]

I loved raising shorthorns as much as any breed.  We were successful and the shorties paid for our farm. Here are my favorite things about shorthorns.
1.  EAsy to sell a a good one. you can also demand a top price for a great one.
2.  Calving season was like christmas.  You never knew what color you going to get until they were born.  Lots of fun.
3.  Hair on show calves generally was not a problem.
4.  Attitude of the cattle is great.  Very easy handling.
5.  Great families breeding these cattle.  Most are honest and have plenty of entigrity.
6  they can perform with the best in the feedlot

Hope this doesn't bust  the bubble but here is the other side of the shorthorns.

Roans and spotted cattle sold at market will not demand top prices.
In the winter when a black cow is grazing and holding their own, some lines of shorthorns require more feed.
Calving ease can be an issue.
Anyone can raise a shorthorn marked steer, and call it a shorthorn.  Even if it is out of a black bull and a grey cow. The association starting a registration for shorthorn influenced helped this issue a lot.

I wouldn't trade my shorthorn experience for anything.  They were good to my family and what few I have will continue to pay the bills in the future. <beer>

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Venables cattle were 15 years ahead of thier time-He doesnt remember me-but I had won Denver in 1994 with a bull called Mad Max-and it might have been 1996-that he had Snappy there-and Lacile Church had some Diamond Leggs cafs, Any how-I thought Snappy-and one or two of the maines(the maines have improved so much its beyond belief) were really-really the best ones there. And talked briefly about his BW etc.I only saw one pic of a cow caf-venable had-but they were right there. A year or two later I showed up with a Double Down-that really drew some people (UB Junior Walker) and got dumped on by alot of shorthorn  people (other than Wendall Dunn)  He got alot of lookers from other breeeds-as did Heat Seeker-who made his debut the same year, Along story short-what little I got to see of those cows and calves-would pretty well put them at the optimum of (my) phenotypes today. O0

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

I cant let some of the comments go by without a response.

We have several Trump influenced cattle in our heard and they are not clubby. We have several Sonny/Sonny Duece cattle and they do not require a lot of groceries for up keep. For instance my daughters current show heifer is a Sonny Duece out of our donor JCS Cumberland Duchess. She is extremely easy fleshing. We can only feed her 12 pounds of show feed per day because she is so easy fleshing. Of course we feed a good show ration. A lot of the criticism of the Sonny cattle should also include the type of cows he has been used on. No bull can improve a bad cow in one generation!

I think what everyone is saying is that the trump influenced cattle have the tendency to be harder doing type cattle.  I have one trump influenced heifer in my herd right now and she is so easy fleshing and I put her to the test.  I got her from a major breeder and when I got her home I decided to see what she was really made of.  I treated her like very few breeders treat their new heifers.  She spent most of this winter on nothing but good grass hay and a protein tub.  She held her own and never lost her condition.  She is out of a Sonny son and one of my favorite cows in the breed a gold spear grand daughter.  My point is that there are good cattle in most of the most popular lines of Shorthorns right now, but we shouldn't kid ourselves either we as a breed have some major flaws that we need to address, but I think that with the people that I have met in this breed we can get it done.  

 

[aj]

Mark...I will have to take issue with the "Performance" word. Are you talking about reproductive performance? Feedlot performance?Stayability performance? Carcass performance? Showring performance? I'm assuming you are talking about the good ole 2,000 cow that weans a 700 pound calf performance. To me performance in a herd is the pounds weaned per cow exposed then figuring in any discounts or bonuses at harvest time.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mark...I will have to take issue with the "Performance" word. Are you talking about reproductive performance? Feedlot performance?Stayability performance? Carcass performance? Showring performance? I'm assuming you are talking about the good ole 2,000 cow that weans a 700 pound calf performance. To me performance in a herd is the pounds weaned per cow exposed then figuring in any discounts or bonuses at harvest time.////Im talking about bulls like Proud jazz-there are 2 out of my cows this year-and 2 last year-they just dont grow compared to other semi-clubby-Chiller-Free For All-Jr Walker-Double Stuff,Dextro etc-I only had 1-or2 big cows-the rest would be smaller framed than the shorthorns I see elsewhere,and smaller framed than the black cows they run with-real simple-the jazzes might be 10 -15 pounds less at bith-(in a couple cases my Panama red and other calves were just as small) but they wean probably 150 pounds smaller than calves out of chiller-p-ma-free for all et-al-only indices I have

 

[sue]

I think a nice even roan is supposed to be a popular color.

solid red is what won at Jr Nationals 2010??

Shorty Girl, the only disadvantage is the breed is not as big as it used to be. I think most would agree the dispositions are the best. Just breed and show what you like and try not to worry about the rest. good luck

 

[shortyjock89]

09 winner was also solid red.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

A good one is a good one- the last ones I saw were winegrtners and Hoblyns a couple years ago-incredibly powerfull-and mostly red.

 

[shortdawg]

No calf looks better in the ring than a "fit to a tee" roan shorty. That's what I like the most about shorty's - they are different in color than any other breed and just turn heads in the ring.

 

[COWgirls]

Yes, I have said this before!  A ring full of shorthorns is the most beautiful sight.  Doesn't matter whose they are...mine, yours, or theirs.  Not a prettier picture at the show!  (clapping)

No calf looks better in the ring than a "fit to a tee" roan shorty. That's what I like the most about shorty's - they are different in color than any other breed and just turn heads in the ring.