Shorthorn Registration??

[kiblercattle]

I have some commercial shorthorns that are calving now all to shorthorn bulls. I was wondering if there is a way to register their calves as shorthorn pluses?

 

[sue]

I hope you are a WHR member ? Either way you can paper the calves as 50% shorthorn, either by Registered service sire or purchasing A.I certificates. If you have not  regisitered on line before - call Heather at American Shorthorn. 

 

[Auburnviewfarms]

Sue does everyone need to be Whr now?

 

[sue]

Sue does everyone need to be Whr now?

Whole Herd Reporting membership includes "epds"  for your herd.  Suppose you were the owner of this popular bull reg # 4058319 and not a WHR member for todays shorthorn standards?  I doubt your semen sales would be the record breaking number that they are today, no epds show without WHR membership. I guess its up to every breeder and how you market your cattle? In my opinion it's long over due- merging with multi breed epds is a blessing.

 

[jnm]

I appreciate the need for data but really resent that I was forced to go to WHR. I always provided all BW and WW for every calf but only registered ones not going to feed lot. Now that I must pay for every female, my cost to keep herd registered has doubled!

I inherited a herd of cows that was 100% shorthorn but papers hadn't been kept up to date. I had to start all at 50% and work up. After several generations and I would get animal to 87.5%, I had to pay extra fee to get her calf  to "purebred status" at 92.5%. As I've looked at many pedigrees , I always shake my head at some that have "purebred" status vs my "shorthorn Plus" that are in reality 100% shorthorn.

Yes I have sent several emails to the ASA regarding the above and they have always done a fine job of ignoring me!

 

[Doc]

I appreciate the need for data but really resent that I was forced to go to WHR. I always provided all BW and WW for every calf but only registered ones not going to feed lot. Now that I must pay for every female, my cost to keep herd registered has doubled!

I inherited a herd of cows that was 100% shorthorn but papers hadn't been kept up to date. I had to start all at 50% and work up. After several generations and I would get animal to 87.5%, I had to pay extra fee to get her calf  to "purebred status" at 92.5%. As I've looked at many pedigrees , I always shake my head at some that have "purebred" status vs my "shorthorn Plus" that are in reality 100% shorthorn.

Yes I have sent several emails to the ASA regarding the above and they have always done a fine job of ignoring me!

jnm, you have hit a nerve with me on this one. With all the talking that the ASA does about getting our numbers up and more data, it just blows my mind that they charge to go from "plus" to purebred status. To me that discourages someone from doing it. I know that the red ink doesn't cost that much more than the green ink.
As far as the WHR goes, it is just a income source for the ASA. I don't see how it has anything to do directly with the multibreed EPD's. You either want to turn in the weights or you don't.

 

[aj]

I could see were implementing a appendix program might cost some money. Like now the Simmental breed is loaded with th,pha, etc.. and now they have another headache to worry about. The Red Angus has the 1a and 1b system in their deal......so you can't jump into that top 1a elite level.

 

[RyanChandler]

Where WHR really helps is with the new percentile rankings.  Shorthorn cattle that have never had any performance records submitted are now excluded, as they should be, from the averages as their numbers were unfounded to begin with. 

On the flip side, prior to WHR, many bulls whose EPD's previously suggested they were high ranking (in terms of their percentile rankings) are now middle of the road as most of the bottom ranking cattle are no longer factored into the equation. 

 

[Will]

Whole Herd Reporting membership includes "epds"  for your herd.  Suppose you were the owner of this popular bull reg # 4058319 and not a WHR member for today's shorthorn standards?  I doubt your semen sales would be the record breaking number that they are today, no epds show without WHR membership. I guess its up to every breeder and how you market your cattle? In my opinion it's long over due- merging with multi breed epds is a blessing.
[/quote]
I think the requiring WHR to get EPDS published is a mistake.  I would be curious to know the percentage of shorthorns that are owned by whole herd reporters.  This is a breed that is mainly made up of small diverse cow herds.  So if I am a new buyer of Shorthorn cattle and I want to look up some information on EPDs and I look at multiple bulls and only a third show any information I am going to assume the information I get is based on a small portion of the gene pool. Another problem I see is if I want to look up an older animal from a breeder who is no longer in the breed that animal will not have any information.  I understand the theory of the change is to generate more revenue and information but how can you grow a breed or business by limiting the available information to prospective customers. 

 

[RyanChandler]

I think the requiring WHR to get EPDS published is a mistake.  I would be curious to know the percentage of shorthorns that are owned by whole herd reporters.  This is a breed that is mainly made up of small diverse cow herds.  So if I am a new buyer of Shorthorn cattle and I want to look up some information on EPDs and I look at multiple bulls and only a third show any information I am going to assume the information I get is based on a small portion of the gene pool. Another problem I see is if I want to look up an older animal from a breeder who is no longer in the breed that animal will not have any information.  I understand the theory of the change is to generate more revenue and information but how can you grow a breed or business by limiting the available information to prospective customers.

EPDs generated (out of thin air) without performance reporting is arbitrary data not information.  Information is that which is useful to the recipient.

As a buyer, you should assume the information you now get is based on the RELEVANT portion of the gene pool.

 

[Will]

I wish everyone reported all performance data.  I would not be opposed to requiring it before a calf could be registered.  What I do not like is that if I want to buy a bull from any other breed I can look up his numbers on the breeds website.  I can research his ancestors and see all of their data.  But now with Shorthorn I can only look up about half of the breed.  If I am new to the breed I do not know there are differant rules for differant members I just know only some animals have EPDs.  An example would be Hot Commodity I see he has numbers but not super high accuracies.  So I look up both of his parents and see neither have any numbers.  So then as someone not familiar with the breed I have to assume his numbers have little value.

 

[Doc]

Not only that, but I went to look up a bull that the owners are dead and the bull didn't have any EPD's listed. So I guess you have to write the ASA into your will and become a WHR member from 6' under now.
Also , I thought this wasn't suppose to happen until Jan.1st? I looked this bull up about 3 days ago.

 

[sue]

The changes to WHR were made my the members that sit on committees- "ASA" works for the members and rightfully so it might surprise you that this process started a while ago. I think as a breeder you either see the value in Multi genetic epds  or you dont.  Ryan was right the previous WHR system was a joke . No one is forcing you do become a WHR member and if you dont or didnt use epds to market cattle then it will not matter, just remain TOC . 

 

[Okotoks]

I was surprised to find that 4058319, JAKE'S PROUD JAZZ 266L, one of the most used bulls in the breed has had his numbers witheld. I believe he was a walking bull for a few years in a WHR herd that sells more bulls than probably any other program in the USA. That just seems a bit short sighted to me and probably does not accomplish what the witholding of numbers was meant to do.

 

[Medium Rare]

I was surprised to find that 4058319, JAKE'S PROUD JAZZ 266L, one of the most used bulls in the breed has had his numbers witheld. I believe he was a walking bull for a few years in a WHR herd that sells more bulls than probably any other program in the USA. That just seems a bit short sighted to me and probably does not accomplish what the witholding of numbers was meant to do.

I think they've thrown quite a few babies out with the bath water on this deal.

 

[jnm]

Sometime in last year I saw stats regarding % of data they got from WHR herds; it wasn't that high. It seems to me they should have worked on getting present WHR members to report their data before forcing everyone into it. Like I mentioned before it doubled my cost to register and i was already providing the data. I also find it ridiculous they use September 1st as date to list and pay for females. I'm sure many of you are like me and haven't preg tested by then

 

[Okotoks]

Not putting AI sires EPD's up is a bit strange as breeders obviously want that info to makes choices. Some of those bulls have been used in WHR herds and have high accuracies. Obviously AI companies are not whole herd members and imported sires like Weebollabolla Theodore don't have data showing either  ???

 

[Duncraggan]

What a pity, I like to cross reference my AI sires! ASA EPD's and BreedPlan figures are very interesting to look at and compare when you have an AI sire used in Australia and USA.

That said, I feel a line needs to be drawn and, with time, the finer details can be tweaked as necessary. Your board is doing a fine job in my opinion, as an outsider that is. (thumbsup)

 

[sue]

jpj was leased as you will probably see his owners are not  WHR and  JSF( not a owner but he leased)  is a WHR member so jsf progeny have epds. I asked the same question on partnership bulls with partners who may not be whr- I have epds and they and everyone will see epds on the bull himself but not the progeny they produce unless you're WHR. It's a "switch" as it explained to me. Turned on for WHR and turned off for TOC- again I am not the official but I did ask questions nearly a year ago, this was clearly in the pipeline.