Shorthorn sire - 100 Solutions

[Doc]

JIT, Well put. I've also heard good things on Pure Solution. Looking forward to seeing the ones at Cagwins sale in a couple of weeks.Those willl be the first for me.

 

[NHR]

I really like the 100 Solutions bull. I also like the Final Solution bull which we will use in our AI program. We will be using CF Phoenix (full sib to CF Solution) in our flushes this spring.

The calves that I have gotten out of Salute and SS Kaboom are the right kind for me. Like I have stated before I would not trade by Trump and Rodeo Drive genetics for anything. The right kind of cattle at the right time!

 

[aj]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

 

[Doc]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

AJ, I think you are being very unfair on your interpretation of what myself & a couple of other people posted. If I sell a calf that has a TH or PHA background , then I try to test it before I sell it . If I haven't had the chance to get it tested yet then I'm upfront with the customer that the possibility is there for the animal to be a carrier. The gun never comes out of the truck & no one is ever forced to buy one off my place with the possibility that it could be a carrier. I also don't think that in this post that I started to begin with that anyone said that you should use th & pha bloodlines. The post kinda took the turn of going the path of using popular or trendy bloodlines, the 2 are not always the same. I hope that to accuse people that you don't even know of what you did that it is just the heat talking(like here 9:30pm & still 98 degrees). If I said something in my earlier post to offend you , it wasn't my intention. But I won't apologize for trying to make a honest dollar with my cattle.

 

[stick]

Why is it that about everytime there is a question on this board about Shorthorns it turns into a pissing contest about Trump and Rodeo Drive bloodlines, and breeders not caring about selling TH and PHA carriers? It's  been said before,use what works for your operation. If it's clubby go that route, if it's commercial and performance, go that way. If you drive a Ford do you bash Chevy or Dodge everytime a question comes up? If it works for you, use it and stick with it, if it doesn't go another route. If your so sick and tired of your Shorthorns, get rid of them. Just make sure you take them to a sale barn and sell them for slaughter. Hate to see you sell them for more than they're worth and capitalize on someone elses promotion and hard work. 

 

[OH Breeder]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

Where does this fit with the track of the conversation? Who said they were selling carrier cattle to newbies without informing them? I am not sure what your point is?  :-\How does that fit in with 100 Solutions? ??? ??? :-\

 

[justintime]

Stick, excellent post!  I could not agree more. I have never been able to understand why some breeders continually have to bash any bloodline or breeding program. Last time I checked, we all lived in free countries and one of the priveldges is we can breed whatever each of us wishes to breed. Every breed has a variation of bloodlines, and any breeder can pick and chose whatever he feels he can utilize. If you don't want to use some sires or the genetics produced by some breeding programs, then DON'T. I doubt there is a gun to your head when you make your breeding choices. As I have said before on here, unless your breeding program is only a hobby, you will at some time have to decide on what you will use in your breeding program to you can sell. You simply have to do this if you have a family to feed and loan payments to make. That does not mean you have to be simply a follower. There is always a need for some good outcross genetics in any breed, and if they warrant it, they will be in demand. If all you can do is complain about the way this are, get off your butt and develop cattle that will prove your point. If you produce good cattle, there will always be a market for them, providing you have a reputation and are willing to stand behind your product. Selling cattle is no different that selling cars or any other product. Reputation, service provided and fairness are all qualities that factor in to where people buy cattle. If you have a reputation of constantly screwing people, you will definitely have a harder time selling cattle. Most people buy cattle from people they like and respect. This is even more true if you sell most of your cattle privately off the farm.

In regards to aj's last post, I really think that you are really off base. I really don't know why you had to try to drive a wedge  into a very good debate with some uncalled for comments. One of the really good things about this board is that there are different views, and sometimes opposing views. We can debate our views and hopefully we can get a little insight into understanding the various viewpoints of other breeders.The first step to understanding an issue is communication. We come here to debate our views and share some information with each other. When you have a better understanding of all sides of an issue, it is much easier to make decisions.

Even though I think you were trying to be sarcastic in your comments, it certainly comes across as being a slap in the face to some breeders who read this.  It also suggests to people who raise other breeds that this is a commonplace practice. I will agree that there are some breeders who breed cattle only for the quick buck. They come, take what they can get, and then leave. They appear in all breeds. To me, your comments suggest that anyone who uses certain bloodlines  is doing the same thing. That is completely and totally wrong.   There are cattle in the Shorthorn breed, and most breeds, that will work in the enviroment and management system you have on your farm. If you are happy with what your are breeding or what others are breeding, then produce some cattle that will prove others wrong. Simply complaining about something really gets you no where and it will make your life unhappy and very very long. Actions always speak better than words.

 

[red]

Thank you so much JIT! I'm amazed at how a simple question about a bull can turn into a debate on how bad the breed is. We all want to raise good cattle. We just might go about it different ways. I can hardly believe anyone that is here is seliing calves without telling their status. OK, let me clarifiy that- w/ a test in place is no longer selling cattle without telling their status. I'm sure we all can nit pick about any breed or any one person's operation.
Let's let everyone have their opinions without bashing the others. No one is perfect or always right.

Red

 

[OH Breeder]

Thank you so much JIT! I'm amazed at how a simple question about a bull can turn into a debate on how bad the breed is. We all want to raise good cattle. We just might go about it different ways. I can hardly believe anyone that is here is seliing calves without telling their status. OK, let me clarifiy that- w/ a test in place is no longer selling cattle without telling their status. I'm sure we all can nit pick about any breed or any one person's operation.
Let's let everyone have their opinions without bashing the others. No one is perfect or always right.

Red

[size=10pt][size=10pt]AMEN[/size][/size]

 

[NHR]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

Who's post were you responding to regarding using and selling TH bloodlines? If it was my post then you are way off base. I don't have a TH carrier in my herd and I dont use TH carriers in my AI program. We had 2 TH carriers in our herd and we sold them at the local auction and made sure they went to the slaughter house.

 

[red]

Come on guys! No one will or is going to slander anyone. Let's just get back to the topic on whether or not any one has seen any of his offspring yet.

I'm going to have to pass out my patented chill pills!

 

[Jill]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

You lost a Karma point for that uncalled for response!

 

[garybob]

I stand corrected. I will agree that in the short term you should use as much th and pha bloodlines and sell them to ignorant newcomers in the breed and screw them over and chase the almighty dollar and the world will be a better place...amen! (clapping)

You lost a Karma point for that uncalled for response!

Yes, Jill, but, I CAN remember being told this very same thing by a semen distributor, because he got tired of my refusal to buy the clubbie semen that his company was selling ( he was an ABS guy).Only he wasn't being sarcastic.He was trying to give me advice (which, if I followed such guidance, would benefit him more than me). He got tired of my pressuring him to assisst me in getting Semen from Performance Bulls, some rare stuff, some International Semex Sires, etc. The way he put it, the very way AJ described in AJ's post, was the ONLY way to make money and progress breeding Shorthorns. He really got under my skin that day.

 

[NHR]

Well, I reached 100 post without having a coronary. Something to celebrate... (clapping)

 

[red]

Well, I reached 100 post without having a coronary. Something to celebrate... (clapping)

YEA!!!!!!!

 

[shortdawg]

Doc, I've kind of sat on the sidelines with this thread but, I really like the bull. They sold semen shares on him for I think $3500/share. This might explain why there are not many calves out there yet. I would think they would be in a small group of people's hands. You know as well as I do how those Solution geneitcs have done lately. I fully expect those calves to be awesome. As far as my opinion on the rest of the thread, I breed what I like or think will work and see what happens. ;D

P.S. - Holler at me or e-mail when you get a chance.

 

[itk]

My point was, that, Don and Wayne are what made Verl successful. It was through their "networking" that Mr. Shell was able to go as far as he did.

I haven't raised registered Shorthorns as long as you have. In fact, I was born the year you started (1970). However, I have been around commercial cattle my whole life. I purchased a Shorthorn heifer as a show project, about the time the MARC Data got published. After college, I resumed my Shorthorn involvement, and have been trying to breed for the traits I remember the Cross-bred roan cows in this area used to have. My search for real shorthorns led me to Paul Bridwell, Tom Deffenderfer, and Russell Sloan.Of these 3 guys, Paul is the only one still living. I have never made the claim to be from a multigeneration Shorthorn breeding farm.I didn't get any "Shorthorn Indoctrination" from my family ( they are opposed to anything that isn't currently popular). In fact, most of my knowlege about Shorthorns comes from many nights sitting up talking with Russell Sloan.

Like many of you, I only have two hand-fulls of Shorthorn cattle. The difference is, I chose not to go the easy route.

Sorry I'm getting in on this aliittle late to but we are getting ready to move. The first thing I learned in life 101 was that you have to have connections and mentors. I think Verl did a great job teaming up with Don and Wayne. We have what I think is a better then average cow herd and we owe it all to networking. We purposely bought cattle from reputation herds to coat-tail off of their success and meet more successful breeders to help us establish ourselves. Very few people are successful on their own so you can't really be bitter at Verl for having alittle help along the way. I'm sure we all owe a bit of gratitude to somebody who has helped us become who we are today. I happen to like Don and we have a great working relationship with him. Also, in case you haven't noticed not much happens in this breed without him knowing. He was instrumental in us getting started back up in shorthorns so I will always be grateful for his help. I also don't think you can talk to Wayne for more then a few minutes and not like the guy. I'm glad I live 10 hrs. away from him because if I didn't my life would be alot less productive. I am proud to say that Verl bought a donor from us because there are very few breeders who can say that and it wouldn't have happened without Wayne's help. This is a business where it would impossible to be successful without networking. Verl chose to network with successfull people and inturn made more people successful that sounds like good business to me.

 

[garybob]

My point was, that, Don and Wayne are what made Verl successful. It was through their "networking" that Mr. Shell was able to go as far as he did.

I haven't raised registered Shorthorns as long as you have. In fact, I was born the year you started (1970). However, I have been around commercial cattle my whole life. I purchased a Shorthorn heifer as a show project, about the time the MARC Data got published. After college, I resumed my Shorthorn involvement, and have been trying to breed for the traits I remember the Cross-bred roan cows in this area used to have. My search for real shorthorns led me to Paul Bridwell, Tom Deffenderfer, and Russell Sloan.Of these 3 guys, Paul is the only one still living. I have never made the claim to be from a multigeneration Shorthorn breeding farm.I didn't get any "Shorthorn Indoctrination" from my family ( they are opposed to anything that isn't currently popular). In fact, most of my knowlege about Shorthorns comes from many nights sitting up talking with Russell Sloan.

Like many of you, I only have two hand-fulls of Shorthorn cattle. The difference is, I chose not to go the easy route.

Sorry I'm getting in on this aliittle late to but we are getting ready to move. The first thing I learned in life 101 was that you have to have connections and mentors. I think Verl did a great job teaming up with Don and Wayne. We have what I think is a better then average cow herd and we owe it all to networking. We purposely bought cattle from reputation herds to coat-tail off of their success and meet more successful breeders to help us establish ourselves. Very few people are successful on their own so you can't really be bitter at Verl for having alittle help along the way. I'm sure we all owe a bit of gratitude to somebody who has helped us become who we are today. I happen to like Don and we have a great working relationship with him. Also, in case you haven't noticed not much happens in this breed without him knowing. He was instrumental in us getting started back up in shorthorns so I will always be grateful for his help. I also don't think you can talk to Wayne for more then a few minutes and not like the guy. I'm glad I live 10 hrs. away from him because if I didn't my life would be alot less productive. I am proud to say that Verl bought a donor from us because there are very few breeders who can say that and it wouldn't have happened without Wayne's help. This is a business where it would impossible to be successful without networking. Verl chose to network with successfull people and inturn made more people successful that sounds like good business to me.

It also means that there's a hindrance to smaller breeders, or those who select for business traits, outside of the showring, if they don't follow along with "the mafia".

 

[Doc]

My point was, that, Don and Wayne are what made Verl successful. It was through their "networking" that Mr. Shell was able to go as far as he did.

I haven't raised registered Shorthorns as long as you have. In fact, I was born the year you started (1970). However, I have been around commercial cattle my whole life. I purchased a Shorthorn heifer as a show project, about the time the MARC Data got published. After college, I resumed my Shorthorn involvement, and have been trying to breed for the traits I remember the Cross-bred roan cows in this area used to have. My search for real shorthorns led me to Paul Bridwell, Tom Deffenderfer, and Russell Sloan.Of these 3 guys, Paul is the only one still living. I have never made the claim to be from a multigeneration Shorthorn breeding farm.I didn't get any "Shorthorn Indoctrination" from my family ( they are opposed to anything that isn't currently popular). In fact, most of my knowlege about Shorthorns comes from many nights sitting up talking with Russell Sloan.

Like many of you, I only have two hand-fulls of Shorthorn cattle. The difference is, I chose not to go the easy route.

Sorry I'm getting in on this aliittle late to but we are getting ready to move. The first thing I learned in life 101 was that you have to have connections and mentors. I think Verl did a great job teaming up with Don and Wayne. We have what I think is a better then average cow herd and we owe it all to networking. We purposely bought cattle from reputation herds to coat-tail off of their success and meet more successful breeders to help us establish ourselves. Very few people are successful on their own so you can't really be bitter at Verl for having alittle help along the way. I'm sure we all owe a bit of gratitude to somebody who has helped us become who we are today. I happen to like Don and we have a great working relationship with him. Also, in case you haven't noticed not much happens in this breed without him knowing. He was instrumental in us getting started back up in shorthorns so I will always be grateful for his help. I also don't think you can talk to Wayne for more then a few minutes and not like the guy. I'm glad I live 10 hrs. away from him because if I didn't my life would be alot less productive. I am proud to say that Verl bought a donor from us because there are very few breeders who can say that and it wouldn't have happened without Wayne's help. This is a business where it would impossible to be successful without networking. Verl chose to network with successfull people and inturn made more people successful that sounds like good business to me.

It also means that there's a hindrance to smaller breeders, or those who select for business traits, outside of the showring, if they don't follow along with "the mafia".

I don't see how you say that those guys are a hindrance to the smaller breeder. I am small breeder , after my Dad passed away last fall I cut my herd back to 15 momma cows, 7 bred yrlngs, & 3 open yrlngs. Because of Verl , I have been fortunate to be involved in some very nice cows & a bull that I sure wouldn't have been able to afford on my own. That was Verls' goal from the beginning. I learned a long time ago that my world was going to be what I made of it, nobody was going to do it for me. So if I succeed I would like to think that I can take the credit myself, bad side if I fail the same person gets the credit , I don't blame it on someone else. As far as "the mafia" goes yea there is politics in the Shorthorn breed, but there is politics in every other breed out there along with my work, my kids' school & etc. You get use to it, try to change it where you can & go on with life. I geuss I need to think long & hard , before I ask about any certain bulls calves again.

 

[shorthorns r us]

Doc, I've kind of sat on the sidelines with this thread but, I really like the bull. They sold semen shares on him for I think $3500/share. This might explain why there are not many calves out there yet. I would think they would be in a small group of people's hands. You know as well as I do how those Solution geneitcs have done lately. I fully expect those calves to be awesome. As far as my opinion on the rest of the thread, I breed what I like or think will work and see what happens. ;D

P.S. - Holler at me or e-mail when you get a chance.

I think they sold 10 shares.  He is my co-favorite of all the SULL bulls to date.  Tied with Pure Solution.

I wonder how the Asset calves are turning out.  Grey Goose must have been pretty good for Asset's marketing based upon that doubling of his Semen Price.  Anyone know what the K-Kim's original Mona Lisa cow looked like?  Picture?  If I understood correctly they used another son of Mona Lisa by Pretender pretty hard last spring, Keifer.  I bet she was impressive in her prime!