Show Heifer Ration

[GONEWEST]

I would like to hear Dan's take on this, but I would think that a person could use cottonseed hull pellets in place of the hulls or possibly even SB hull pellets. For fun take a handful of the pellets and pour a cup of water over them in a jar. See what happens. A person may have to tweak the ration to fit the availability of ingredients in your area, but I still like the idea of being in total control of what is in the feed that "I" want to feed, not what the feed store wants to sell me.

Your welcomed to get anyone's take on it you want. Cotton seed hulls ad fiber, but the reason they are in the ration over other sources of fiber are bulk. A mill started using pelleted hulls here for the same reasons that were mentioned in the original post and it just killed the effectiveness of the ration. What that pellet does in water is fall apart. It doesn't expand like beet pulp. And it's been heat processed to be pelleted. Those who are stubborn enough to continue to buy from that mill never have calves with the look of other people, even after using beet pulp.

I also believe that you can't get all you can get out of an animal by feeding it the same thing as it's barn mate. You have an ideal that you are shooting for that is the same for all, yet each one begins from a different point. So how do you think they will all end up looking the same if they don't begin the same and are fed the same?  I agree with red wing that the ration is a little low on protein and fat for me. But the 14% fiber won't expand the gut just because it is fiber. It expands the gut because of what the fiber source is. You could use ground up corn cobbs, sunflower seed hulls, ground wheat straw, a million things to make a 14% fiber ration and it won't do what cotton seed hulls will. I am sure that this ration was good for the type of cattle AAOK was showing when he fed it. But you have to tailor your feed to the individual to get all you can get out of the animal.

As to cost, I don't see how people can afford to feed this $17 and $18 dollar a bag show feed. Yesterday my base feed was $9.00 a bag, which is outrageous to me. But the savings of mixing it myself are not as great as for someone using Show Chow or Ring Master or what ever. It looks as good and is as good as any  Purina feeds, just have to tweak it some. But I certainly would look into mixing your own if you are feeding these high priced feeds.

As to supplements, my experience is that most are useless. However, Sure Champ and Show Bloom are very helpful when you have cattle on high grain rations for an extended period of time. Remember that animal was built to eat and digest forage, not grain. It could use a little help in the digestion of the diet you have placed it on.

 

[CAB]

I would like to hear Dan's take on this, but I would think that a person could use cottonseed hull pellets in place of the hulls or possibly even SB hull pellets. For fun take a handful of the pellets and pour a cup of water over them in a jar. See what happens. A person may have to tweak the ration to fit the availability of ingredients in your area, but I still like the idea of being in total control of what is in the feed that "I" want to feed, not what the feed store wants to sell me.

Your welcomed to get anyone's take on it you want. Cotton seed hulls ad fiber, but the reason they are in the ration over other sources of fiber are bulk. A mill started using pelleted hulls here for the same reasons that were mentioned in the original post and it just killed the effectiveness of the ration. What that pellet does in water is fall apart. It doesn't expand like beet pulp. And it's been heat processed to be pelleted. Those who are stubborn enough to continue to buy from that mill never have calves with the look of other people, even after using beet pulp.

I also believe that you can't get all you can get out of an animal by feeding it the same thing as it's barn mate. You have an ideal that you are shooting for that is the same for all, yet each one begins from a different point. So how do you think they will all end up looking the same if they don't begin the same and are fed the same?  I agree with red wing that the ration is a little low on protein and fat for me. But the 14% fiber won't expand the gut just because it is fiber. It expands the gut because of what the fiber source is. You could use ground up corn cobbs, sunflower seed hulls, ground wheat straw, a million things to make a 14% fiber ration and it won't do what cotton seed hulls will. I am sure that this ration was good for the type of cattle AAOK was showing when he fed it. But you have to tailor your feed to the individual to get all you can get out of the animal.

As to cost, I don't see how people can afford to feed this $17 and $18 dollar a bag show feed. Yesterday my base feed was $9.00 a bag, which is outrageous to me. But the savings of mixing it myself are not as great as for someone using Show Chow or Ring Master or what ever. It looks as good and is as good as any  Purina feeds, just have to tweak it some. But I certainly would look into mixing your own if you are feeding these high priced feeds.

As to supplements, my experience is that most are useless. However, Sure Champ and Show Bloom are very helpful when you have cattle on high grain rations for an extended period of time. Remember that animal was built to eat and digest forage, not grain. It could use a little help in the digestion of the diet you have placed it on.

Great reply & I believe that you are right, but there has to be some give and take to what is available to different areas. I love AAOK's ration and know that I can tweak if I want to. It is the best thing about mixing your own mix. With the cement mixer you can mix each calf's diet separately and feed to their different needs. It is exactly what needs to be done. I wish all kids could somehow get the chance to do it this way to "learn" more about different feed ingredients & feeding.

 

[GONEWEST]

I would like to hear Dan's take on this, but I would think that a person could use cottonseed hull pellets in place of the hulls or possibly even SB hull pellets. For fun take a handful of the pellets and pour a cup of water over them in a jar. See what happens. A person may have to tweak the ration to fit the availability of ingredients in your area, but I still like the idea of being in total control of what is in the feed that "I" want to feed, not what the feed store wants to sell me.

Your welcomed to get anyone's take on it you want. Cotton seed hulls ad fiber, but the reason they are in the ration over other sources of fiber are bulk. A mill started using pelleted hulls here for the same reasons that were mentioned in the original post and it just killed the effectiveness of the ration. What that pellet does in water is fall apart. It doesn't expand like beet pulp. And it's been heat processed to be pelleted. Those who are stubborn enough to continue to buy from that mill never have calves with the look of other people, even after using beet pulp.

I also believe that you can't get all you can get out of an animal by feeding it the same thing as it's barn mate. You have an ideal that you are shooting for that is the same for all, yet each one begins from a different point. So how do you think they will all end up looking the same if they don't begin the same and are fed the same?  I agree with red wing that the ration is a little low on protein and fat for me. But the 14% fiber won't expand the gut just because it is fiber. It expands the gut because of what the fiber source is. You could use ground up corn cobbs, sunflower seed hulls, ground wheat straw, a million things to make a 14% fiber ration and it won't do what cotton seed hulls will. I am sure that this ration was good for the type of cattle AAOK was showing when he fed it. But you have to tailor your feed to the individual to get all you can get out of the animal.

As to cost, I don't see how people can afford to feed this $17 and $18 dollar a bag show feed. Yesterday my base feed was $9.00 a bag, which is outrageous to me. But the savings of mixing it myself are not as great as for someone using Show Chow or Ring Master or what ever. It looks as good and is as good as any  Purina feeds, just have to tweak it some. But I certainly would look into mixing your own if you are feeding these high priced feeds.

As to supplements, my experience is that most are useless. However, Sure Champ and Show Bloom are very helpful when you have cattle on high grain rations for an extended period of time. Remember that animal was built to eat and digest forage, not grain. It could use a little help in the digestion of the diet you have placed it on.

Great reply & I believe that you are right, but there has to be some give and take to what is available to different areas. I love AAOK's ration and know that I can tweak if I want to. It is the best thing about mixing your own mix. With the cement mixer you can mix each calf's diet separately and feed to their different needs. It is exactly what needs to be done. I wish all kids could somehow get the chance to do it this way to "learn" more about different feed ingredients & feeding.

If you have to "give and take" and the "give" has to be bulk, might as well just feed 'em half corn, half oats and some SBM and forget it. Lots of people do that, too.

 

[blackdiamond]

use beet pulp instead of the cottonseed hulls, and avoid the problem.

 

[BlkAngus]

A few questions.
A few people have mentioned that AAOk's feed rations protein and fat % are too low in their opinion.  What percentages are you aiming for?  How could you tweak his ration to get to the % you like?  What could be substituted for some of the corn to make the ration not as hot as to burn off hair?  Or are there other suggestions for a heifer feed ration?  I can't afford to feed the 15 to 20 per bag Show feeds.  
thanks

 

[redwingfarm]

We will vary our rations based on the size of the calves and the time of the year, we aim to be 11.5-13.5% protein, 8-14% fiber, and 4-5% fat, we generally use cracked corn, oats barley, Purina 4tFyer supplement(we have fed Purina 4tFyer for over 5 years and absolutely love it, 32% protein and 27% fiber), cotton seed hulls and mollasis, and occasionally some liguid fat (corn oil)
When I mentioned earlier the idea of feed being too hot and burning hair off, here is what i mean, corn digests at a higher internal body temperature than oats or barley and calves on a high % corn ration will be warmer inside their body which will basically tell the body that it needs to strip down a layer because it is sweating to much, thus it starts to shed our hair so it can be cooler.
Our summer ration for our show calves is generally an equal parts mixture of corn oats and barley, which will digest cooler and you get the added benefit of the very nice cover that barley fat will put on the calf.

 

[CAB]

You can go to Purina's web site and find a # of ration suggestions that are put together around Grand T Fortifier. It is another great resource, but I still like AAOK's ration the best. Strait forward simple!!

 

[AAOK]

I'll give my best attenpt to address these issues:

First, I am not a Nutritionist. Our younger daughter developed this ration in her Ag class. They had a sorry teacher who only taught the boys to weld. The girls were left to play on the computers during Ag classes. She had tormented Kirk Stierwalt at every show about a better ration for her heifers. He told her to use a Finishing Ration and gave her the basic ingredients, but no amounts. This was about 1996 or 97, and we were all feeding larger framed calves with the goal to get more Fat & Fill.  The World Wide Web was also much younger, but amazingly did have some information about beef cattle feed ration configuration. I was working for Moormans at the time, and had access to some of the finest beef and dairy nutritionists. The formulation our daughter put together from her Internet search tested as balanced as anyone could ask.
(Kirk verified her results)

According to the test, we were at 10.2% Protien, 14% Fiber, 3.7% Fat.

We never had a Cool Room , but also never had a problem with our ration being "too hot" (for hair or gut)  The Summer of 1998 was terrible in Okla and the surrounding states. Our Maine-Anjou Jr National show was is Sioux Falls, SD.  When we left in early June, the Temp was112. Wichita, KS was 108. Our 2 raised  heifers could have used more hair against all those northern calves, but both of ours were good enough to make the Champion Drive. Our big heifer was Res. Grand & Grand Champ Bred & Owned.

In past years onSP, I have visited via PM, Email, and Phone with well over 100 people about tweaking our ration to best meet their needs. Several are successfully  using Cottonseed Hull Pellets, and others Have successfully substituted Beet Pulp. Some are using Barley, and have reported success. My point is, there is no perfect ration to serve the needs of every show calf,  I have shared our ration because it worked for us, and saved a lot of money which could be invested elsewhere.

I've not heard of Palmer Amaranth weed, but I do believe we have every bad weed known growing in Oklahoma. Loose cottonseed hulls really cause even very young calves to dig into a trough. I've weaned calves through the fence with our ration as early as 2 months.  The only real flaw I find is the person who refuses to add a GOOD mineral. If my year with Moormans taught me only one thing, it is the importance of a Quality Mineral, just ask a Dairy guy.

Remember the KISS theory - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Happy New Year!

In His grip,
Dan

 

[AAOK]

ttt