sire ?

[3GCC]

any info would be a big help
            1who made who--how are his calves structure and front end wise
            2mossyoak-what does he need used on
            3full flush--are his calves too large framed to use on a larger frame cow
            4shockwave-- anyone had any and how did they look

 

[OH Breeder]

These are simply opinions...
I really like WMW and what he does to the front ends. Usually he cleans them up. Use him on a sound cow and he can do wonders for you. I think many times you can pick his front end out it is so distinctive.I prefer him to Heat Wave.
Mossy Oak- I have never had any luck. He has always been on the smaller side for me. He didn't add any size.
I have the same questions on Flush. I inquired about Smoke signal a flush son. I got some great feed back from folks on here.
Can't tell you on Shockwave and I am anxious to see what you hear.

 

[Jill]

Never used any of the 4. 
On Full Flush, he is being used a lot on Heatseeker lines, so I would guess that he wouldn't be the best on larger framed cows.  I can tell you you don't want the females out of Full Flush, we have 2 that will be going to the sale barn this year, I am tired of jacking dead calves out of them.

 

[knabe]

full pull?

 

[farmboy]

full pull?

lol knabe

 

[fluffer]

Just my opnion, but...
Who can throw really good calves or really cripple calves.  If they are ok on their front legs they will be fine.  If they are even a little straight, splay footed,  or over at the knee as babies, steer clear they will fall arpart on you.

Don't know about the rest.

 

[Okie Boy]

For us, strictly commercial cows we started breeding clubby a few years ago. People suggested WMW . He has made super heifers but the bulls have been almost crippled. I thought I would have to eat one of them before it got to #800. It was still going strong when its mates went to the sale barn so it went too. I tried Hannibal this last year, not really impressed with the calves ( they are only 60 days now ). So I don't know that I can recommend WMW.

 

[Jill]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

 

[garybob]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

Oh, the lessons in Beef Production we're teaching these Youth!

 

[Show Heifer]

garybob.....if you think pulling a calf is teaching the kids something you're sadly mistaken....the youth program these days teach kids that whoever can whine and get their folks to spend big money on a calf and (usually) have a "jock" (not good or bad) to clip and groom it show day (not to mention it was already show broke when they bought it), will win. THAT is what kids are being taught.
And to those kids that actually DO OWN their own cows, make breeding decisions, select, break, clip, fit and show their own calves, my hats off to you. You are in the minority, but you are the best, regardless of what color ribbon you get!!!

 

[fluffer]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

I have had to use the jack a couple of time, but never came close to breaking it.  What did you do when the bar broke?? Get the tractor?

Just wondering incase I ever have that problem  

 

[fluffer]

garybob.....if you think pulling a calf is teaching the kids something you're sadly mistaken....the youth program these days teach kids that whoever can whine and get their folks to spend big money on a calf and (usually) have a "jock" (not good or bad) to clip and groom it show day (not to mention it was already show broke when they bought it), will win. THAT is what kids are being taught.
And to those kids that actually DO OWN their own cows, make breeding decisions, select, break, clip, fit and show their own calves, my hats off to you. You are in the minority, but you are the best, regardless of what color ribbon you get!!!

(clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

That was me back in the day (the one raising, breaking, and fitting their own cattle) 

You hit the nail on the head, most youth these days wouldn't care or have a clue about calving out cows

 

[Jill]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

I have had to use the jack a couple of time, but never came close to breaking it.  What did you do when the bar broke?? Get the tractor?

Just wondering incase I ever have that problem  

The calf finally came out, it wasn't a big calf, she was a 72 pound heifer out of our herd bull, but she hip locked, it took a couple of guys, but they finally got her out.  I have said over and over that birth weight has no bearing on calving ease and I'll say it again.  In this case the calf was out of our herd bull, he is a Hard Core out of a purebred Angus cow with -0.6 for birth weight, you would assume that you ought to be able to get a live calf call me silly, but this is why I think EPD's in the Maine breed are useless.

And to answer Garybob's "Oh, the lessons in Beef Production we're teaching these Youth!"  The lessons my kids are learning are invaluable for beef production or anything else they will endeavor in life.
Not everything turns out like you planned
Sometimes things happen that make no sense
Things die, people, animals, things we love, you mourn, count your blessings and go on
Everything in life isn't easy, the things that mean the most you have to work the hardest for
We all learn by mistakes, if you aren't making any you aren't doing anything, and last but not least
Winning always feels better when you win with one you raise

 

[chambero]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

I have had to use the jack a couple of time, but never came close to breaking it.  What did you do when the bar broke?? Get the tractor?

Just wondering incase I ever have that problem  

In a pinch, you can always use a come-a-long to help you pull a calf.  We've had bars break on us, but its usually because the cow tries to lay down and gets it in a bind before we can get it out of the way.  Or the thing has corroded or cracked from sitting in the barn unused for long periods of time.

Any kid that is going to raise any kind of cattle better learn how to pull a calf.  It doesn't matter what breed, sometimes you have to assist.  I wasn't sure of the intent behind the question.  Of course most kids aren't taught such things in ag classes.  I was well out of school before I learned it.  They ought to be learning how to cut calves, vaccinate properly, etc but ag teachers can only do so much, especially if they don't have access to cattle and facilities.

If done right, a kid can learn a lot from a "jock" also.  One of my most educational cattle experiences in my life was a week spent with my calf at a jock's place my senior year to get him clipped for Houston.  He had lots of babies showing up, cows around, etc. and I had to help out with all of it.  I learned more that week than I ever did in 4 years of ag classes in high school.  If a kid doesn't take advantage of it, its their loss.  Not the jocks fault.  I've never seen one that wasn't willing to teach if asked.

 

[Jill]

My parent's wouldn't even consider doing what you talked about.

I'm missing what your saying, what exactly are you referencing?

Garybob, I have given this a lot of thought and I think instead of thinking you are one of the most cynical, hateful people I know, I choose to think that your responses just come off wrong in the written word.

 

[DL]

full pull?

Let's just say the last one was bad enough it broke the puller bar in 2.

I have had to use the jack a couple of time, but never came close to breaking it.  What did you do when the bar broke?? Get the tractor?

Just wondering incase I ever have that problem 

The calf finally came out, it wasn't a big calf, she was a 72 pound heifer out of our herd bull, but she hip locked, it took a couple of guys, but they finally got her out.  I have said over and over that birth weight has no bearing on calving ease and I'll say it again.  In this case the calf was out of our herd bull, he is a Hard Core out of a purebred Angus cow with -0.6 for birth weight, you would assume that you ought to be able to get a live calf call me silly, but this is why I think EPD's in the Maine breed are useless.

Jill - do you pelvic measure your heifers? I use the Maine BW EPDs to determine who I would NEVER use on heifers. The accuracys on most Maine bulls is too low to count on having your calf in the middle of the bell shaped curve. I can see how there would be issues with a 72 lb heifer calf out of a -.6 bull if the heifer had a small pelvic area and the calf wasn't exactly oriented right

breaking a calf jack would suggest to me either
poor obstetrical technique (hip locked calf can be turned with proper technique)
small pelvic area of the female
error in sire selection
management error
perhaps the zeal to remove the calf resulted in excessive force
or all of the above


gary bob - I find your posts thought provoking and different - thanks - too much of the cheerleader football captain mentality drives me nuts : : : : :

 

[Show Heifer]

I think MHSC21 is refering to the fact his/her parents wouldn't spend huge money to buy calves (hence buying his/her ribbon. Which I find most commendable!!  (clapping)
And jill, why do you assume garybob is hateful and cynical? I find his responses thoughtful, and thought provoking. I enjoy reading his post and even though some of his responses lose me, it isn't his fault I can not understand. Its MY fault for not TRYING to understand.
And wow, pulling a 72 pound calf? THAT is unthinkable. Even if it was hiplocked (and remember I raised limmi's....the king of big hips).  Never did we hip lock a 72 pound calf, unless it was a feedlot heifer that didn't pass the breeding exam. And even then....
I have given this a lot of thought, and instead of thinking you are just a bad cattle breeder, I will choose just assume you made a bad breeding decision.

 

[Jill]

You may assume what ever you want, she was bred to what is supposed to be a calving ease bull from DeRouchey that is what he was purchased for, he is 1/2 angus X Hard Core, how you get that was a bad decision is beyond me.  This heifer was in a group of heifers that we kept back last year that were not shown and were not fed or over conditioned. 

To answer DL's question, no we don't pelvic measure, we have never had a problem with calves that hip lock, from now on we may need to do that.  If this calf could have been turned I would have called that person Houdini, about half of our mature cows are bred clubby and we have a lot of experience pulling calves, never had a problem till this group of heifers.

 

[red]

We've had to pull a 75# breech. Also had to pull small calves from heifers that just won't try. They however have gone bye bye.

Not sure why this post turned nasty. I think each group has their own cheerleader section. If you notice most of the people defend those they like or agree with. I don't think anyone is immune to it. Even those that think they are above it.

Red  (argue)

 

[Jill]

Back to the original reason for the post, the ONLY 2 calves we have had serious problems with have had Full Flush breeding, I started this just to say I wouldn't keep that bull in the breeding herd, if you're looking at heifers Who Made Who is a much better choice.