Slick vs Hair shows

[LostFarmer]

I am new to the beef show world and also have the dubious honor of serving on the county fair board.  I am having some real conflicted thoughts on the whole hair and show thing.  I like the idea of leveling the playing field and getting hair out of the equation.  As then it is more about feeding than hair.  But I see the advantage to having calves caught, rinsed and brushed multiple times a day to helping the calf get broke.  I am not exactly sure where I sit on this.  I see people breeding for hair instead of muscle and easy fleshing cattle.  I see calves that are good animals passed over for the hair ball and wonder if that is good for the project.  I want to believe that any judge worth a pinch of puppy poop can see through the hair gimmicks but I am not sure that is the case.  So as a parent of early 4-H'rs and also a member of the fair board edumacate this dummy.  :-\

 

[forcheyhawk]

I used to be on the fence about this as well.  I then listened to Bobby May tell at a Fitting Clinic that the kids get so much more out of the project from the work they are putting in to grow hair than otherwise.  Then I thought about my own daughters and the time we spend together brushing, rinsing, blowing, and working with the calves.  I think about the kids that start working with their calves the week before county fair.  I came to the same conclusion as Bob did.  I wouldn't trade the time I get to spend with my daughters trying to grow cattle hair.  Sometimes we are successful and sometimes we aren't, but in the end we are much further ahead than a slick shear project.  My 2 cents.

 

[BCCC]

Where are you located at?

 

[LostFarmer]

Eastern Idaho.  We have cool enough nights that we can grow hair pretty well without a cooler.  I see the advantage to the hair and time that is put into the project but I also see some very nice tight haired simi and limi cattle left on the outside.  I am seeing advantages to both.

 

[BCCC]

Leave it a hair show, if you not in texas or oklahoma you don't need a slick show. Also if your state fair is a hair show your county needs to be a hair show, as if someone competes at both there's no way for them to get hair back in time for state to actually compete.

 

[The Show]

Hair show. I wish Texas still did fit shows everywhere.

I think hair makes it a more level playing field. Here's why; you can train a freakin monkey to dump feed into a pan. If you add hair into the equation then you can really tell who works with their animals and who doesn't. One of the biggest debates down here is fitting. I'm not sure if you would make it a fit show or not. I'm all about fitting, but the argument you will hear the most is we don't know how, we can't afford a fitter, or we don't want to fit because were too lazy. I'd say make fitting optional and let family members/4H & FFA members only fit on cattle. That way people can't gripe about fitters working for people who hired them.

 

[Bradenh]

Hair show. I wish Texas still did fit shows everywhere.

I think hair makes it a more level playing field. Here's why; you can train a freakin monkey to dump feed into a pan. If you add hair into the equation then you can really tell who works with their animals and who doesn't. One of the biggest debates down here is fitting. I'm not sure if you would make it a fit show or not. I'm all about fitting, but the argument you will hear the most is we don't know how, we can't afford a fitter, or we don't want to fit because were too lazy. I'd say make fitting optional and let family members/4H & FFA members only fit on cattle. That way people can't gripe about fitters working for people who hired them.

  that's  extremly well put! I agree 100% because we live in Texas also and it is possible to grow hair if peolpe would get up and go wash and spend time on it (and that's what it's all about anyway) and actually I think the fitting at shows is much funner than just a bland ole slick show.. And hair is a reflection of your time and effort

 

[Bulldaddy]

I think showing slick really levels the playing field--what you see is what you get.  It illiminates some of the opportunities for cheating and forces kids (and parents) to focus on raising the best fat steer possible.  There is still plenty of ways to teach your kids about hard work, fair play and good values.  However, I still enjoy seeing a hair show like Fort Worth and can appreciate all the hard work and skill that goes into fitting those kind of cattle.

 

[simtal]

why the need to level the playing field? That doesnt teach teach the kids anything.  Those who are successful do well regardless of hair on a calf...

 

[shortyjock89]

why the need to level the playing field? That doesnt teach teach the kids anything.  Those who are successful do well regardless of hair on a calf...

That's what I'm sayin.  That would be like making everyone go to the same college......same "education", but the best are still gonna be the best.  I've never seen a complete crap one win because of hair in IL.

 

[DakotaCow]

I do agree with the fact you get more out of the project by having a hair show and that those Jrs that do their own work will be better for it in the end,but I personally like the idea of slick shows. I was brought up with the impression that cattle were showed to find the best calves not the more highly fitted calves. Just like a Jr can focus his or her breeding program to build the best calf they can they will learn that by becoming educated and learning more about genetics and physical traits will help them in the future...even if it is a few years before they breed a calf that is truly special. One can also look at the other side of the coin and we all know that at many shows the parents of some children do much or all of the work. I was recently at a Jr Nationals and witnessed a well known Jr that was well in their teens do nothing but grab the halter before the show and hand the calf off after. After a week of being stalled next to them i counted the times they used a blower on one hand. However they got credit for the work that the parents and hired help had done. The debate between haired and slick shows has and likely will always create a rift in the world of show cattle. However the goals and values to be learned do not change. <cowboy>

 

[Bulldaddy]

This is an excellent example of why you would want to level the playing field and showing steers slick helps accomplish that objective.  That said, I guess folks that want to cheat can do so regardless of whether the show is a slick or a hair show.  The kids that do the work themselves know who they are and can be proud of their hard work regardless of how they place.

I do agree with the fact you get more out of the project by having a hair show and that those Jrs that do their own work will be better for it in the end,but I personally like the idea of slick shows. I was brought up with the impression that cattle were showed to find the best calves not the more highly fitted calves. Just like a Jr can focus his or her breeding program to build the best calf they can they will learn that by becoming educated and learning more about genetics and physical traits will help them in the future...even if it is a few years before they breed a calf that is truly special. One can also look at the other side of the coin and we all know that at many shows the parents of some children do much or all of the work. I was recently at a Jr Nationals and witnessed a well known Jr that was well in their teens do nothing but grab the halter before the show and hand the calf off after. After a week of being stalled next to them i counted the times they used a blower on one hand. However they got credit for the work that the parents and hired help had done. The debate between haired and slick shows has and likely will always create a rift in the world of show cattle. However the goals and values to be learned do not change. <cowboy>

 

[JSchroeder]

Slick doesn't level the playing field, it just eliminates the 'my dad fits/hires better than your dad' part.

 

[Duffer]

The only advantage that I can see at a slick show is that there will be an increase in Calf Calm sales.  (lol)

 

[R1Livestock]

I hear both sides of the story here.  Slicking does level the field, and it doesn't level the field.  Hear me out-- unless every project is picked from the same pen of pre-selected calves based on some random pre-determined order, the playing field will never be level because of different socio-economic status' of participating families.  Obviously hair doesn't have any bearing here.

However, if calves were to be selected this way, would slicking level the field then?  In my opinion, yes.  It takes elements such as resources to build a cooler out of the equation.

Does it really matter?  I don't think so.  The families that are successful showing with hair will be just as successful without hair.  They don't win because they know how to grow hair, they win because they are smart enough to know or learn what needs to be done then spend the time to actually do it (or hire it out, which defeats the entire purpose, but that can be for another day).

 

[drl]

One way to make it a little more even is to make it just exhibitor only fitting at the junior shows. So Suzy has to fit Suzy's calf and Johnny has to fit his own calf. No having dad or mom or hired help who has done it forever doing it for the kid. While this may seem not fair for younger exhibitors they will have their own turn being older later. I have seen many 12-14 year olds that can fit better than the 18 year olds. I would think it would be easier to enforce compared to letting family, other exhibitors, and leaders and such do it. This would make those kids that show who just show up at the showring have to do some work. I have seen too many instances where the parents are the ones who want their kid to show and the kid is off playing while there calf needs work. But I guess that is more of a parenting issue.

 

[amss101]

I personally hate the "leveling the playing field" argument. 4-H and FFA is supposed to be all about moving our children above others by teaching responsibility and reaping rewards through hard work. The leveling the playing field seems to go completely against what these organizations say they are all about. We all know and see the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in show cattle and in the real world. This is one project where those willing to get off the couch and work can actually close that gap. One of the best lessons to learn for the youths of today. No matter how hard you try you will never accomplish the leveling of the playing field you can only make the lazy families feel warm and fuzzy about their unrealistic chances of being competitive. Hard work pays off as always, think before you take this life lesson away from the kids in your area.

 

[The Show]

I personally hate the "leveling the playing field" argument. 4-H and FFA is supposed to be all about moving our children above others by teaching responsibility and reaping rewards through hard work. The leveling the playing field seems to go completely against what these organizations say they are all about. We all know and see the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in show cattle and in the real world. This is one project where those willing to get off the couch and work can actually close that gap. One of the best lessons to learn for the youths of today. No matter how hard you try you will never accomplish the leveling of the playing field you can only make the lazy families feel warm and fuzzy about their unrealistic chances of being competitive. Hard work pays off as always, think before you take this life lesson away from the kids in your area.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[BadgerFan]

you can train a freakin monkey to dump feed into a pan.

ever heard the term brush monkey?  I think learning the ins and outs of feeding cattle would be a better life skill than how to run an Air Express.

I prefer hair shows, too, but I sometimes worry about what they teach kids.  I realize that working on a calf to grow hair develops work ethic, dedication, etc.  but I've always thought it skews a young kid's view of the priorities within the overall cattle industry.  Once a kid loses state fair eligibility hair on cattle becomes much less important.  In fact, you might even start looking for cattle that shed quickly.  

I just hate that kids show up to my place looking for the calf with the most hair, not with the best combination of muscle, bone, structural correctness and balance...no...hair.  I'm not looking to level the playing field so we can all show feedlot steers and everyone gets a ribbon, I just think we can teach the next generation to look for more than a "chubby" (I can't believe that's a term) steer calf.

there, my rant is over.  Go on.

 

[wowcows]

IMO only! There is no such thing as leveling the playing field. Life is not fair. The tough and hard workers will be succesful and the lazy ones will not.
(argue)