Slick vs Hair shows

[chambero]

The other pros/cons presented here are pretty much all valid.  To me, the decision boils down to this:

In my opinion, the real purpose of a county level show is to give lots of kids a chance to participate and become involved in showing, regardless of whatever animal it is.  You want to encourage kids starting out to become more involved, and eventually show at state-level shows.  So, don't implement a rule that potentially hurts kids that interested enough to want to take that next step.  If your state level shows are "hair" shows, keep your county hair. Even if they aren't taking those same calves to the state shows, they need practice fitting. 

To me, the purpose of the whole 4-H/FFA program is to increase involvement and interest.  Most kids at the county level look at showing as a way to make a little money with a minimum amount of work- usually with pigs, sheep or other animals.  Those aren't the kids I worry about or am interested in helping.  Your rules should focus on reinforcing and supporting kids that do want to give it their all and really care.

In our county in Texas, our county show is before Ft Worth (our only state level hair show) so our county is hair (blow and go).  Where I used to live, our county was after Houston so it was slick shear.  I like both kinds.

One other thought - cold weather is VERY hard on slick sheared steers.  If kids are holding these calves over for another show in late fall, I would strongly discourage slick shearing.  Calves are already growing their hair back and slicking them will put them in a tough spot if you get an early cold spell.

 

[afhm]

The work done at home and showmanship in the ring will win/lose more shows than a fit job will.  I'll agree a highly fitted one has a better chance than one that looks like it had a run in with a weedeater. A good calf is a good calf regrardless of the fit job, now a bad one with a great fit job does get better.  If we had a much better set of quality judges out there it still wouldn't matter the good ones would win and the bad ones wouldn't

 

[stangs13]

They already started leveling the playing field for kids in other sports by giving everyone a trophy, first or last place. Lets make the kids work for it!! I agree with The Show 10000%.  Keep fit shows in texas!!!! Not to mention the same people that can win hair shows will also win slick shows..

 

[rackranch]

Our county used to be hair but the same 3-4 families kept winning every year... Others didn't like it so they raised cain until the county was voted slick... Guess what?? The same families kept on winning because they knew how to pick'em, stick'em, raise'em, and put their time in the barn. Like has been previously stated hard work and the school of hard knocks is what pays off in the end.  Very few people just get lucky...

GOOD THREAD!!

 

[steer-guy]

SLICK!!!! Even though there are slick shows, this doesn't mean the animal isn't messed with daily. tied, brushed, washed and blowed. All other market animals are clipped. Goats, sheep and pigs.... These are market animals and we don't consume the hair. With hair, there are too many tricks and hidden things. What you see and feel with slick steers is what you get.

 

[LostFarmer]

Here is the situation that has happened 2 years in a row now.  A local kid helps his elderly neighbor in trade for a calf.  The calves are good Limi crossed with angus and herford.  The limi in this case has peeled the hair off of them.  The kid works hard has won the carcass class many years, won the ADG, and other awards.  He does a good job.  But he has been moved down in showmanship and also market for the lack of hair.  He is thinking of working for a different neighbor to get a hairy calf instead of a quality calf.  For me teaching that selection is on hair and not the carcass that will hang is the wrong message.  I do agree that those that pick, feed, and show well can and will do it with or without hair.  Not sure I know any more now than before.  LF

 

[shortyjock89]

Sounds like that young man did well in one portion of your contest and now wants to try to do better at another part.  Some cattle are just not cut out for the show ring. We've had Limo's at our State Fair tear it up and have plenty of hair.  Seems like this young person wants to get a very well rounded show experience.

 

[The Show]

They already started leveling the playing field for kids in other sports by giving everyone a trophy, first or last place. Lets make the kids work for it!! I agree with The Show 10000%.  Keep fit shows in texas!!!! Not to mention the same people that can win hair shows will also win slick shows..

The steerjocks ruined that for us 

 

[R1Livestock]

Just to play devils advocate-- someone run with the argument of a market animal showing it's qualities?  Sheep, pigs, and goats are not hidden behind fur, for what reason should fat steers be exempt?  I am on board with instilling work ethic and the true work it takes to get hair, trust me we've been there, but what lesson is taught when a calf has a problem that the jock says will be "trimmed out?"  I know we're teaching kids all about gambles and the real world and such, but at what point is teaching the next generation to skirt around the goal instead of going straight at it and getting the best market animal?

 

[Aussie]

Sorry for my ignorance but do the judges run there hand over the hair and touch the hide to see what is under the fluff. They do here. ???

 

[rackranch]

Given this fact, I think the kid will be better off finding a steer with some hair. He is obviously good at what he does but is putting himself at a disatvantage picking slick sheer calves.  The show is hair at this time, and unless a majority of those involved want a change, it will stay that way.  I don't think he should have been moved down in showmanship for lack of hair nor do I think he should sacrafice quality finding a calve with some hair.  We all have the same proplems when picking calves, it is a very tough decision and probally the most important. Its one of those things I hate but love...

Here is the situation that has happened 2 years in a row now.  A local kid helps his elderly neighbor in trade for a calf.  The calves are good Limi crossed with angus and herford.  The limi in this case has peeled the hair off of them.  The kid works hard has won the carcass class many years, won the ADG, and other awards.  He does a good job.  But he has been moved down in showmanship and also market for the lack of hair.  He is thinking of working for a different neighbor to get a hairy calf instead of a quality calf.  For me teaching that selection is on hair and not the carcass that will hang is the wrong message.  I do agree that those that pick, feed, and show well can and will do it with or without hair.  Not sure I know any more now than before.  LF

 

[Bulldaddy]

There certainly some strong opinions on both sides of this issue.  I wonder if it would be feasibel to have both a hair and a slick division in a major or state show?  That way the folks that sell steers could sell more steers and both those who prefer hair and those who prefer slick would be able to show they way they like.  Just a thought...

 

[ShortyJ13]

    I am a junior in High school and I have been showing for about 5 years now, and I strongly side with the fact that showing NATURAL is better than showing with inches of hair on your show calf. What I mean is, let the cattle have as much hair as your climate and their body allows. Now, with this mindset, do I win many of our junior cattlemans associations shows? NO. But it's what I find natural for cattle so I go with it.

  Where we live we have a very humid and hot climate and hair growth is definantly not something that comes natural to calves. But putting my calves in coolers and risking their lives, or spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on feeding supplements, fans, misters, and chemicals in order to fool its body into growing more hair... just seems unnatural. I've been there, done that, had fantastically hairy calves, and didnt like it at all. Now I focus on healthy hides and animals that don't fall off feed just because temperature rises. Regular baths and blowing, a fan but nothing too serious.  When I can physically see a calf stressing out because it's hotter at the show than at its enclosed, cooled stall at home, I'm concerned.  At many shows it seems that the fattest hairiest calves always take the ribbon, regardless of the animals actuall health. Half of the heifers I see, I wouldn't even feel comfortable turning them into a pasture or breeding them without having to worry about the stress on their systems.

    As for steers, whats the point in even growing hair like that on them? A steer is the only market animal that hair growth is emphasized on. Market goats, lambs, and hogs are all slick sheered. So why is cattle any different? Steers should be judged on their the muscle and bone and what they can bring to market... not the wonderful job the owner did of growing and fitting the hair on them.

    As a student that has been in the cattle industry for a while and seen the show and the sale barn side of the industry,  I think that it is more important to learn your animals industry and whats going on with it. To learn how to feed them... and what and how to actually feed an animal. Protein percentages, mineral intake, vitamins, weight builders and fillers is not just something that any ol' person can do at the drop of a hat. There actually is a science to it.

Do I think it should be outlawed? Of course not... and I dont think we should spend our time slick-shearing our cattle either. I just don't think that it should be as big of a deal as it is. I am for NATURAL cattle. If its a shorthorn, its going to have more hair than an angus so let it be. It is how it is... thats how the good lord intended it  ;D Most judges nowdays dont look beneath the clubiness of a calf. And let's face it... the kid that thier folks make a living off cattle or in a mill isn't going to have the same amount of money for grooming products, fitters, coolers, and whatnot that the son or daughter of a doctor will. Trust me.. I watch people buy thier winnings all the time.

and THATS why I think the hype of hair is ridiculous. (lol) Some of you wont agree... but It's just my opinion. :-\

 

[DLD]

Leave it a hair show, if you not in texas or oklahoma you don't need a slick show. Also if your state fair is a hair show your county needs to be a hair show, as if someone competes at both there's no way for them to get hair back in time for state to actually compete.

Just for the record - we don't slick shear in Oklahoma, unless it's some county(s) I'm not aware of.  Certainly not any of our state shows.  I do believe there are slick shows in some of the southeastern states as well as Texas.  I do completely agree that if your state shows in the hair, then your county should also. 

As far as which is more fair, it's pretty much a toss up.  There are plenty of lessons to be learned doing it either way.  The kids that do the work one way will do it the other, the ones that don't won't change either.

I believe that the original "official" reason for going slick at Houston (I believe the first major to do so)was to eliminate excessive and unsafe use of electricity... 

 

[The Show]

That might be the "official" reason, but everybody will tell you that they did it to run off the steerjocks. I'm not sure about other states' shows but Houston pays out really really good and it got to where basically it was who could hire the best jock.

There certainly some strong opinions on both sides of this issue.  I wonder if it would be feasibel to have both a hair and a slick division in a major or state show?  That way the folks that sell steers could sell more steers and both those who prefer hair and those who prefer slick would be able to show they way they like.  Just a thought...

That's a good idea!

 

[LostFarmer]

In other words the money got good enough that showing became its own business instead of a means to promote the cattle industry.  With the spoils to the winner attitude the steer jocks became more anxious to win and we started a spiral of hair, pumping, drenching, and injecting.  And those are the things we can talk about.  You have to win to be in demand for the next show.  The more you win the better cattle you will get to work from.  And the snowball is started rolling down the hill. 

So is the solution to take the money out of the equation to where showing is all for the love of the game? 

 

[BadgerFan]

So is the solution to take the money out of the equation to where showing is all for the love of the game? 

No.  I paid for college with show calves.

Besides, showing is often for the love of the game, how often do you come away from a show with a check that will even fill up your truck on the way home?  Not often enough.

Like most things, the answer isn't black or white, it's somewhere in between. 

 

[forcheyhawk]

In other words the money got good enough that showing became its own business instead of a means to promote the cattle industry.  With the spoils to the winner attitude the steer jocks became more anxious to win and we started a spiral of hair, pumping, drenching, and injecting.  And those are the things we can talk about.  You have to win to be in demand for the next show.  The more you win the better cattle you will get to work from.  And the snowball is started rolling down the hill. 

So is the solution to take the money out of the equation to where showing is all for the love of the game? 

I can think of a few ways to take money out of it and even more ways as to why those ways don't interest me at all.  I'm telling you what - these kids even the poor ones learn to work harder to beat the money and they are better for it.  I can't see near as much interest in the project if everyone shows up at the same feedlot to pick their calf.  For my kids, 1/2 the fun for the entire year is figuring out our budget and attending every sale we can within a 100 mile radius to find the best one for the money - being active in the bidding process.  We surely aren't alone as more and more of these pasture sales pop up every year.
I guess it comes down to what you want your youngster to learn.  If they want to learn real beef, stick with the carcass contest.  Don't change an entire show to conform to a few poor kids.  Those poor kids need to learn the motivation and the drive to make their situation better.  I can tell you this and believe it because I'm not from a wealthy family.  I worked with market price cattle my entire 4-H career and didn't get a sniff of the top except for the carcass contest, but I still tried.  I still worked hard.  I still learned a lot from it.  In the end, I made my situation a little better as an adult.  It was the motivation I gained from not having money that helped me do that.  Don't take that away from this young man.

 

[The Show]

In other words the money got good enough that showing became its own business instead of a means to promote the cattle industry.  With the spoils to the winner attitude the steer jocks became more anxious to win and we started a spiral of hair, pumping, drenching, and injecting.  And those are the things we can talk about.  You have to win to be in demand for the next show.  The more you win the better cattle you will get to work from.  And the snowball is started rolling down the hill. 

So is the solution to take the money out of the equation to where showing is all for the love of the game? 

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

If you show heifers it's nothing new. The best premium I EVER got showing a heifer was $75.00 and that is at our local fair. Supreme Champion at Houston pays $5000. That's enough to cover costs of feed, hotel, and traveling to shows throughout the year.

At Houston the Grand Champion steer is guaranteed $75,000-$85,000. That's before taxes of course, but even after taxes your still left with a good amount of money. For some people that justifies spending $20,000 on a steer and spending $20 to have it taken care of by the best jock out there.

If you show heifers you gotta love the game because there's not much money to be made. I show heifers because I love showing and raising cattle. Granted, a heifer turns out to be some awesome donor you will get some return on her but probably not enough to offset the money you've spent over the years to get to that point. Houston ran off the steerjocks at the show by making it slick shear, the only way to get them out of the picture completely is to take away the money, but that'll never happen.

 

[afhm]

When did you show in Houston "The Show"?