Some herd sires from the past

[RedBulls]

Jamie- Thanks for posting all these old pictures! Very interesting seeing them all.

Uluru- I really like the Ready Go bull from what I see. Now I will have to try find Grants post where he talked about him!

 

[Okotoks]

Here is photo that was used on the Alberta Shorthorn Map in the 1980's. The bull is Deer Trail Private Eye by Deer Trail Goliath. His dam was Woodland Doris 817, a daughter of Clark and out of Bromelee K Red Doris 4th from Manitoba (polled beef bloodlines)He was born December 1983 and my Dad bought him out of the pens in Denver January 1984. The females were all selected by my wife. We have no female descedants from the females in our herd but two show up in the pedigrees through sires we used in Northern Legend 3N, Diamond Steps 18Z , Frimley Pilsner 5P and Matlock Red Sniper 1U.
The cow on the left is Loch Lomond Greta 8F born 1974, sired by Diamond Welcome 16th and bred by Paul Maier, Lomond ,AB.(straight beef breeding) The middle cow is Coulee Bank Kate, straight Dual Purpose, originally owned by Scotland, the roan cow is Cactus Flat Ritzie a Weston Ablo daughter out of a Mandalong Supr Flag cow,grand dam by TPS Coronet Leader 21st bred by Ralph Peterson. The red heifer calf is Diamond Whiskey Kate 29W out of Kate and by Private Eye.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

If I had to choose based on the pics, there is NO WAY I would use Improver 57. Looks rough IMO. No butt, no guts. If he had not been Th pos, would he still be popular today?

 

[scotland]

a few sire of the past with people in them to give all an understanding of their size, or lack of... many of these will be thesires behind our beef Shorthorns 

 

[Okotoks]

a few sire of the past with people in them to give all an understanding of their size, or lack of... many of these will be thesires behind our beef Shorthorns 

Nice photos Rolly.
So are they bigger or smaller than where some people want to head today? We had a couple of cows with Constructor up close. They had great udders,  one responded to upsizing and the other one we gave up on after about 3 generations!

 

[justintime]

a few sire of the past with people in them to give all an understanding of their size, or lack of... many of these will be thesires behind our beef Shorthorns 

Nice photos Rolly.
So are they bigger or smaller than where some people want to head today? We had a couple of cows with Constructor up close. They had great udders,  one responded to upsizing and the other one we gave up on after about 3 generations!

One of the things I wonder about when I think of these bulls from the past is how they still produced some relatively large framed cattle. Bapton Constructor was considered on the edge of being too big in his day. I saw him a couple times at Louada Manor in Ontario. We had a Constructor son, that my dad purchased because he he was too big to sell in the Louada sale. He was sold to Remitall and then to Cromellar in Manitoba. I remember my dad buying this bull from Morris Senkiw ( Cromellar) as a 5 year old bull. He took our old 2 ton truck down to get him, and we had a real hard time getting him into it. We stopped at our local auction mart on the way home as dad wanted to weigh him and I remember he was 2330 lbs after a 180 mile trip. He probably weighed well over 2400 lb on pasture most days. When I look at the picture of Bapton Constructor, I have to really wonder how he could have ever sired a bull that would weigh this much.

I can also remember some massive Scotsdale bulls, that would be considered bigger bulls today. These were bulls that weighed 2300 lb plus while breeding. One bull I remember was a direct son of Calrossie Prefect, and he ranks as one of the most impressive bulls I have seen. He probably was a 2500 lb bull . Interesting how these genetics sometimes work but then, I also remember Wib Donaldson ( Louada Manor) saying that over half and animals genetics came from the feed bucket!

 

[Cowfarmer65]

Been busy over the last couple of weeks with Agribition and then a little thing called my day job, so now I'm just getting caught up on here.
The Louada bulls and Scotsdale bulls certainly bring back alot of memories from my childhood.
Had a nice visit with Emerson Clarke at our Annual meeting this past Saturday. Still, as always, a true gentleman and cattleman.
Every now and then I'll pull out some old " Shorthorn World " issues and take a trip back in time.
Over my life we had the opportunity to use some excellent bulls from Scotsdale, Tutuira, Aberfeldy, Saraguay, Spring Grange.
  The most memorable, perhaps cause I was older then, were Spring Grange Dutch 29L ( a Tutuira Captain Dutch son),  Scotsdale Turbo( Manitoba Sunrise) and Benvale First Hand ( Scotsdale Rodney), as some of the newer faces in Shorthorns might not know the Benvale prefix was Scotsdales graded up herd.
Another old name just popped into memory......Kelso Ignition.. another Wib Donaldson import.
Wib was IMO most likely the all time best marketer of cattle, in Shorthorns and then Herefords in later years. My father and he were good friends and I remember my dad saying " he could sell an ice box to an Eskimo, then go back the following year and convince him he needed more". Memories.
I guess this just re-affirms that I'm getting a little longer in the tooth.

 

[scotland]

a few more older pics for all to enjoy...and reflect the trends we take the industry , just because...

 

[Okotoks]

I thought some of you might find this 70 year old  December 1940 Shorthorn News interesting. It was given to me by Bud and Lil Boake.

 

[justintime]

Here is a picture of some Shorthorn bulls from the past. These are two bulls that my grandfather had Grand and Reserve Grand Champion with, at the 1930 Regina Bull Sale. The Champion sold for $265 and the Reserve sold for $580, which was an amazing price in those days. There were 168 bulls in the sale and the average was $180 per bull. This doesn't sound like very good prices, but if you use an inflation calculator, the Reserve Grand at $580 is equivalent of getting $7650 in 2010, and the sale average would be equivalent to a sale averaging $2375 today.

 

[Okotoks]

Here is a picture of some Shorthorn bulls from the past. These are two bulls that my grandfather had Grand and Reserve Grand Champion with, at the 1930 Regina Bull Sale. The Champion sold for $265 and the Reserve sold for $580, which was an amazing price in those days. There were 168 bulls in the sale and the average was $180 per bull. This doesn't sound like very good prices, but if you use an inflation calculator, the Reserve Grand at $580 is equivalent of getting $7650 in 2010, and the sale average would be equivalent to a sale averaging $2375 today.

I wouldn't mind having one of those bulls today JIT, they must have been before the belt buckle stage as they look plenty big enough and pretty well fleshed as well. Any idea what their bloodlines were?

 

[justintime]

Here is a picture of some Shorthorn bulls from the past. These are two bulls that my grandfather had Grand and Reserve Grand Champion with, at the 1930 Regina Bull Sale. The Champion sold for $265 and the Reserve sold for $580, which was an amazing price in those days. There were 168 bulls in the sale and the average was $180 per bull. This doesn't sound like very good prices, but if you use an inflation calculator, the Reserve Grand at $580 is equivalent of getting $7650 in 2010, and the sale average would be equivalent to a sale averaging $2375 today.

I wouldn't mind having one of those bulls today JIT, they must have been before the belt buckle stage as they look plenty big enough and pretty well fleshed as well. Any idea what their bloodlines were?

I will have to look them up again. I have a complete set of herd books for the Canadian Shorthorn Association going back to 1876. My grandfather purchased the first registered Shorthorns in a sale in Brandon in 1916. It was a sale of Scottish cattle that were brought there by the Scottish government and it was called the " Flood Relief Sale". From what I heard as a kid, the Scottish government paid the costs to bring these cattle to Canada and it was an attempt to help Scottish farmers who had been devastated by extreme flooding that year. I will see if I can do some research on the pedigrees of these bulls. I also have a picture of one of the heifers purchased by my grandfather in 1916. I think she would look pretty decent today. I will see if I can get it scanned as well.

 

[Okotoks]

Here is a picture of some Shorthorn bulls from the past. These are two bulls that my grandfather had Grand and Reserve Grand Champion with, at the 1930 Regina Bull Sale. The Champion sold for $265 and the Reserve sold for $580, which was an amazing price in those days. There were 168 bulls in the sale and the average was $180 per bull. This doesn't sound like very good prices, but if you use an inflation calculator, the Reserve Grand at $580 is equivalent of getting $7650 in 2010, and the sale average would be equivalent to a sale averaging $2375 today.

I wouldn't mind having one of those bulls today JIT, they must have been before the belt buckle stage as they look plenty big enough and pretty well fleshed as well. Any idea what their bloodlines were?

I will have to look them up again. I have a complete set of herd books for the Canadian Shorthorn Association going back to 1876. My grandfather purchased the first registered Shorthorns in a sale in Brandon in 1916. It was a sale of Scottish cattle that were brought there by the Scottish government and it was called the " Flood Relief Sale". From what I heard as a kid, the Scottish government paid the costs to bring these cattle to Canada and it was an attempt to help Scottish farmers who had been devastated by extreme flooding that year. I will see if I can do some research on the pedigrees of these bulls. I also have a picture of one of the heifers purchased by my grandfather in 1916. I think she would look pretty decent today. I will see if I can get it scanned as well.

Honest I'm not impatient (thumbsup) waiting.....as soon as you get those cows fed everything plowed out ....

 

[sue]

My father who will turn 81 in June....  saw alot of the bulls in the post in person. He visited Louada twice a year and used alot of western canadian bulls too.

When he sees old semen or embryo matings  listed he just chuckles and says " have we screwed things up that much"?  I often wonder if he's right . But he argues the muscle vs white meat and no milk .
Heres a guy that lived through the 80's calving the "monsters" and frankly was better then most vets getting "one" out alive.

My recent visit(s) this past summer/ fall would solidify some of what he says is right. There is a reason some of those old cows look so "chubby" .... the nurse cows were feeding the calves. All I can say is be careful before you plunge. I personally have lost interest.

But hey I have Leader 9th semen for sale ;D

 

[Okotoks]

My father who will turn 81 in June....  saw alot of the bulls in the post in person. He visited Louada twice a year and used alot of western canadian bulls too.

When he sees old semen or embryo matings  listed he just chuckles and says " have we screwed things up that much"?  I often wonder if he's right . But he argues the muscle vs white meat and no milk .
Heres a guy that lived through the 80's calving the "monsters" and frankly was better then most vets getting "one" out alive.

My recent visit(s) this past summer/ fall would solidify some of what he says is right. There is a reason some of those old cows look so "chubby" .... the nurse cows were feeding the calves. All I can say is be careful before you plunge. I personally have lost interest.

But hey I have Leader 9th semen for sale ;D

I agree there are a lot of genetics out there today that work very well. At the same time I have seen some pretty impressive animals with a close up cross of some older genetics. It certainly broadens our genetic base and although not every cross of yesterday's bull on today's cows will give a home run I think enough will to make it worthwhile. It is also pretty fascinating to have those genetics to select from. I think Jake's Proud Jazz and Alta Cedar Lad 13N are examples of it working well. My guess is a thread on Shorty bulls in five years will be a great debate about a whole bunch of useful bulls.

 

[Okotoks]

I just got my semen storage bill and was looking at my inventory. Some of the sires from the past we have stored are
Maplewood Drive Princeton
Scotsdale Karnwood
Miami Baron 20B
Weston Ablo
Four Point Royal 13th
Cactus Flat Winner 4W
Meriwong Royal Grant
Mandalong Royal Ferrari
Mandalong Super Flag
Newbiggon Jumbo
Newbiggon Super Star
Matlock Torpedo 49T
and a Banner Royal Oak but not sure which one until it's checked?
oh and there's still 4 straws of Ayatollah,the demand for this would be huge! ;D
That's all bulls born pre1987.
What do others have? Some breeds keep track of older bulls available.

 

[justintime]

I have :

Cumberland Gay Lad
Scotsdale Rodney
Ready Go
Weston Secretariat
Glenford Curt( 1980 US National Champion in Fort Worth)
Ayatollah
Cactus Flat Ringmaster ( Ayatollah son who was  Champion at 1980 World show in Louisville)
HC Changing Times 85K  ( Senior Champion at the 1980 American Polled Congress in Kansas City
Huberdale Mastercharge
Deerpark Leader 13th ( Dividend)
AF Dividend Dealer 2
Mandalong Super Flag ( 90 vials)
Four Point Major  ( 100 vials)
Banner Royal Oak
Mandalong Super Elephant ( 1)
NVS Shadrack
IDS Duke of Dublin  ( about 1200 straws)
Highfield Irish Mist ( 5 straws in Canada also about 12 straws stored in the US)
Gotho Signal 3rd  ( imported Lincoln Red  - from England)
Meadowbrook Prince 16th
Meadowbrook Roan Chief
Claydene Everreddy
HUBS Director
Kenmar Lancer 58L
Green Row Dominator ( by Hillview Hobo)
Seagrave Royal Imperial ( dual purpose Shorthorn from the 60s)
Diamond Captain Mark 27C   (not sure if he counts as a sire from the past )
Marc 1V


I know I am forgetting some, so i will have to check my inventory book which is not here right now. I lost several sires from the past, a few years ago when I had a tank rupture. I lost over 100 straws of Pheasant Creek Leader 4th, and semen from 4 different Gloriadale sires from the 60s, including  the only 20 vials of Gloriadale Bonaparte in N America, as he was exported to South Africa.I also lost 32 embryos in that tank. There are 6 full tanks here at the farm, along with a few thousand doses stored in three different studs. My wife says that day 2 of my dispersal will be just semen and embryos. She may be right!
I also inherited Craig Andrew's semen tank after he passed away, and I haven't gone through it yet. I imagine there may be some gems of old sires in it as well.

 

[Okotoks]

JIT have you used Weston Secretariat very much? Did you bring him up the same time as the Weston Relection bull? Did Reflection get collected?
That's an interesting group of bulls. Have you used the Meadowbrook bulls recently?

 

[justintime]

JIT have you used Weston Secretariat very much? Did you bring him up the same time as the Weston Relection bull? Did Reflection get collected?
That's an interesting group of bulls. Have you used the Meadowbrook bulls recently?

Weston Secretariat was sired by Weston Shamrock and we purchased him in the Nold/Hofstrand/Dau sale in the 70s for $6000. We also had Ready Go as well, who was also a Shamrock son ( well at least we thought so at that time!!). Secretariat was a smaller framed bull than Ready Go, and quite frankly, his calves did not have the performance we were wanting at that time. He was super thick made and calved very easily.We used him on our heifers with no calving issues. There only appears to be two calves registered from him, but I don't know why that is, as I know there were many calves registered from him. I looked back in my files and I have a bunch of papers from his offspring yet.  I think he would be much more popular today than he was back then. I only collected a small dose of semen for in herd use, and there are only a few doses left. I maybe should use him again. He was solid red and polled.

Weston Reflection was purchased by Craig Andrew( Paragon Ranch) at the North Dakota Winter Show and Sale for $8200 in 1976. Craig purchased him a year before I purchased Secretariat. If you look up Reflection's pedigree, it shows he was a full brother to Ready Go. Knowing what I know now, I doubt if they were related at all. The bulls did not look anything alike, and they certainly did not breed even close to the same.Reflection was the top selling bull at this sale, and the bull that was Grand Champion was a horned Weston Shamrock son named Weston Frame Builder. He was a bigger framed bull and he sold to Don Murphy ( Gemvale Shorthorns), Neville, SK for $4500. While Frame Builder was horned, he is another bull that should have been collected as he certainly bred very well. He was from a really good cow that came from the Stangl herd in SD. Craig never collected Reflection to my knowledge. I am supposed to be getting Craig's semen tank, so I am anxious to go through it and see what gems there are in it. Maybe I will find some Reflection semen!  I find it interesting to note what we had to pay for a good herd sire back in the 70s compared to what bulls sell for today.

I have not used any of the semen from Prince 16th and Roan Chief for many years... probably at least 30 years when I think back. They were definite female sires, but I really never had a great male calf from them. The females from these two sires were great uddered with lots of capacity. Prince 16th was the more popular at the time, but he also could give you a female with considerable set to her hind legs ( mind you, I never saw one that was sent to market because her legs had failed her!). Roan Prince was owned by a small AI co-op in Ontario( Western Ontario Animal Breeders Co-op), and was used mostly in their owners herds which were mostly commercial and dairy herds at that time. When this small AI co-op was amalgamated into what is now Gencor, there was only a small number of doses of Roan Chief left in the system. I can still remember some of the amazing Roan Chief daughters I used to see when touring Ontario herds in the 70s and early 80s. Roan Chief was born in 1960 and Prince 16th was born in 1966. I think Roan Chief was dead before we figured out that he was siring some great females, and by this time, there wasn't much semen left.

 

[jaimiediamond]

I just noticed that I forgot to post Mandalong Superflag (blond moment) perhaps one of the most influential past sires of all time...