Sowing more pastures with legumes

[bradycreek]

Sowed more red clover into the grass pastures this year. With the potash and fertilizer cost still rising with no end in sight I'm planning to do a lot more.  Guess everyone had the same idea as the red clover seed was EXPENSIVE.
We just broadcast the seed and add some phosphorus and potassium on overgrazed short fall pastures.

Thought of trying some Korean Lespedeza for next year.

**How many of you did more legume establishment this year than usual do to the high cost of fertilizer.
dh

 

[knabe]

i still think a guy/gal should look at water soluble carbohydrates in hybrid high sugar rye grass from sucraseed.  i planted clover about 4 years ago, and in some areas.  i only overseed with the ryegrass now for my hobby herd.  i used the pasture sweetener, as i mentioned, i have too much clover.  it does a great job of choking, once it gets started.  i noticed a small problem the other day, in that some of my lawn grass has escaped into the pasture.  it obviously doesn't produce as much dry matter as the hybrid grass.  amazed at how fast it escaped.  i also didn't get the package with orchard grass, as i've got too much in some areas of this as well, and it clumps up pretty good sometimes.  the sweet grass seems to grow inbetween rather well.

again, no, i'm not a salesman for them.  i did my senior project in college on pasture improvement with liquid injection of fertilizer and overseeding of natives and improved grasses and legumes (clovers), also liquid injected.

would be interesting to see some of the high feed efficiency marker bulls offspring like gigolo joe (7/8) and ironman (8/8) do on this stuff, or if the markers only work on typical feedlot mixes.

www.sucraseed.com

 

[fluffer]

We are doing the same thing.  We had some "experts" come out and look at our pasture to see what we could do to improve it.  They told us to trun cows in, let them eat the grass down really well, move them off of it and no till in some clover.  Let the pasture rest until the clover comes up then turn the cows back out onto it.  We are doing it more to get rid of some of the fescue.

Fluffer

 

[DiamondS]

This year we have decided to turn our silage ground all over to Fesue/Alfalfa mix.  I have never liked feeding silage to our cows as it is causing issues with pasture destruction.  Also, we have no stalks to turn the cows on to after the silage is harvested.  It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to pack the feed off of the field, just to bring it back to them....  I'm meeting some resistance on this from our resident "farmer" as change is a huge problem for him.  I can't justify the fuel and equipment costs for planting silage, harvesting it, and feeding it back to the cows.  What are you're thoughts on this?  Wise or foolish?  I have talked to a Charolais breeder in KS who told me I will not regret it.  Any advice?  We also looked into using red clover as opposed to alfalfa, but decided to go with alfalfa.

Thanks,
DiamondS

 

[JbarL]

i still think a guy/gal should look at water soluble carbohydrates in hybrid high sugar rye grass from sucraseed.  i planted clover about 4 years ago, and in some areas.  i only overseed with the ryegrass now for my hobby herd.  i used the pasture sweetener, as i mentioned, i have too much clover.  it does a great job of choking, once it gets started.  i noticed a small problem the other day, in that some of my lawn grass has escaped into the pasture.  it obviously doesn't produce as much dry matter as the hybrid grass.  amazed at how fast it escaped.  i also didn't get the package with orchard grass, as i've got too much in some areas of this as well, and it clumps up pretty good sometimes.  the sweet grass seems to grow inbetween rather well.

again, no, i'm not a salesman for them.  i did my senior project in college on pasture improvement with liquid injection of fertilizer and overseeding of natives and improved grasses and legumes (clovers), also liquid injected.

would be interesting to see some of the high feed efficiency marker bulls offspring like gigolo joe (7/8) and ironman (8/8) do on this stuff, or if the markers only work on typical feedlot mixes.

www.sucraseed.com

i put on 100# of sucraseed....beef bank ( 5% red clover 5% ladino clover)...on about 3.5 acres first of april....got it on wet( some was really tore up) ground, and let the cattle walk it in after it dried a bit, and then moved them off......crude conditions and rescources for getting it on,... but wet weather/ warm temps  has made ideal conditions for starting.....been up for about week....more rain due this weekend....we are hoping for the best...got some pics i'll pass along later if interested...( thanks knabe )...jbarl

 

[SDCC]

DiamondS, I have been considering the same thing my self, do you plan to stock pile the fescue /alfalfa  for winter grazing to replace the silage you would feed through the winter months?  I guess my question to you is how does it pencil out? How may tons of dry matter and energy do you take off per acre of corn silage? and what is your cost verses cost per ton of drymatter and energy in the fescue/alfalfa  scenario . I know you can get allot of tons per acre of corn silage but I also know that with seed, fertilizer, and fuel costs it will be high priced feed. I sure like the idea of lower inputs and letting the cows do the work for us.I could not think of anything better than to not have to go out and start a tractor or skidsteer on those 20 below zero winter mornings to feed cows not to mention the silage freezing up in the bunks and all that good stuff.

Another question I have for the grazing experts is this? Lets say I have land that will produce  200 bu/acre corn. I take this ground out of grain production  and seed it to pasture. I would be using year round rotational grazing, assuming average rain fall, how many cows can I feed per acre? Also what blend of seed would give me the most feed per acre? Do you know of people winter grazing in northern Iowa or southern Minnesota. I know all the grain farmer neighbors  around here would think I had lost my mind. Cash rent in these parts is $235 per acre, can a person save enough by letting the cattle harvest the crop for you to ever make it feasible to graze prime farm land? If this ground can produce 7 ton per acre dry matter of corn silage or 9800 pounds of TDN per acre, does that mean it should produce the equivalent of an alternative forage  that can be grazed and yield the same TDN per acre?  I am assuming the answer is most likely  no since I never see anyone doing this. But I guess I like to  think out side the box and look for better ways to stay sustainable in these crazy times.     

 

[KYsteer]

We use the Red and Ladino Clover to dilute out the effects of the fescue in our pastures.  This year I interseeded Red Clover and Orchardgrass into 1/3 of our fields.  I try to do this about every year to keep the forage fresh and make adjustments if needed.  One thing we did last year that saved us was interseed about 80 acres with annual Ryegrass.  This stuff grew would nothing else would with the drought we had, so I had some good winter grazing.  It was also the first thing to come up this spring and gave us an earlier turnout date.  If used properly Ryegrass can be a great thing.

 

[red]

we're keeping ours the same. We have about 300 acres that is hay/haylage ground.

Red

 

[bradycreek]

SDCC--sounds like you have soome great farm land.  Not sure If I would take it out of production but I definetly would think after I cut the silage turn the cattle on it to clean up. This Fall plant winter wheat and 1 graze it or 2 with the high price of wheat right now raise it and sell. After harvest of the wheat plant a sorgum-sudan hydrid or millet. You should be able to get 2 cutting of hay then graze the remainder.  Where I'm at you could expect 6-10 thousand pounds of production from the sourum-sudan hybrid.  A coulple of things to keep in mind with this system is the puratic acid build up in the sudan hybrids. Cut for hay or haylage at 36" height down to 24".  Don't graze it until you have 24" of height.
I feel that this is a good use of land and keeps a crop on it after the harvest of the wheat and baling of straw.
here is a link for some more info on annuals that can be planted after wheat crop harvest.
[urlhttp://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/crops/g04661.htm][/url]
dh

 

[bradycreek]

Diamond S--Pro's and cons to each Alfalfa or Red clover
Alfalfa-more managment-spraying, looking for bugs, diseases
More bloat problems if grazing
plus it last longer it taken care of

Red clover- usually no bloat problems, less managment, but it will need to be re-seeded every few years.
Here is a web site from MU that some may find helpful.
[urlhttp://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/crops/g04651.htm][/url]
dh

 

[knabe]

Another question I have for the grazing experts is this? Lets say I have land that will produce  200 bu/acre corn. I take this ground out of grain production  and seed it to pasture. I would be using year round rotational grazing, assuming average rain fall, how many cows can I feed per acre?

But I guess I like to  think out side the box and look for better ways to stay sustainable in these crazy times.     

this is what tim ohlde did.  his pastures are terraced ground.  he'd be a great source of info like that.  i'm assuming it helped him select his cattle and change from a high input, feed growing operation to what he has now.  anyone go to his sale?

 

[knabe]

it's been over a year since i through out some sucra seed and other mixes in my pasture.

i'd have to say i wished i did the whole thing.  probably the only thing that does better (don't know about dry matter measurement) with less water is some fescue in another mix.  the faster, longer growing grasses help shade the soil FAR better than the annual grasses.  i have reasonable amounts of clover.  the orchard grass areas seem to not do as well on my soils without more water.  i think i'll fence of the sucra area and gather some more seed.  the fescue seems real agressive and the cattle don't seem to like it as much.  seems a little harder.  sometimes i mow it and gather it and they really like it compared to forage hay.

the thing i like about the sucra seed grass is that it chokes out weeds real well, especially some of the last i'm trying to get rid of, foxtail.  all you have to do is mow it when the foxtail heads are green till the sprigs run their course and no more foxtail heads.  the sucra areas seem to stay the wettest longest of any area.  went back and looked at their site and they mention drought tolerance.  what that means, i don't know.

basically, over time, i've gotten rid of broad leaves like mustard, radish, weedy bur clover, russian thistle, fiddleneck, curly dock, coyote bush (a native), and a few other locals.  probably one of the worst we have is ripgut brome.  i've been throwing native california fescue where the ripgut is and it seems to choke it out pretty fast.  my favorite native, blue rye, just isn't tough enough or palatable enough for grazing.  the purple needle grass is, but it can get areas that dry out and decay, but it does real well with foot traffic and organic matter accumulation.  not real clear on longer term effects of that, though it does stay green for an amazing amount of time.

all in all, i think i would do narrow strips of native, with wider strips of the "improved" grasses with less orchard grass.

there's a better populated testimonial section.

http://www.sucraseed.com/success/index.php

i wished i lived in an area like most on this site and could do a lot more of this.

here's a section for you chambero

http://www.sucraseed.com/success/SweetSpot.php