Sullivans No Bull Sale

[coyote]

I guess my question on using a cross bred bull is, is there going to be any hybrid vigor left for the commercial cattleman?

 

[aj]

I guess you would have to trick a commercial cattleman into trying those purebred shorties with a 120# bw to compare results? Good point.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I guess my question on using a cross bred bull is, is there going to be any hybrid vigor left for the commercial cattleman?

If the cow herd is black angus commercial cows which 99.9 of the U.S. is then yes, I believe you would have very acceptable hybrid vigor. In my little world, it sure has worked. Good question.

 

[coyote]

Up here there are some guys selling  bulls that are F1 and seem to be selling them quite well. If I was a commercial breeder I would prefer the cow being the F1 and the bull being a purebred.
Another thing I would like to do is calve in Texas, boy she is cold up here today.

 

[Shady Lane]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
  www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing. 

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

 

[nkotb]

What was wrong with the lot 83 bull, the TM Gus X JPJ's mom?  Thought just from a genetics standpoint would have done better than $1800.

 

[kfacres]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
  www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing. 

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

 

[Shady Lane]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
  www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing. 

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually I would say that it is important if you are discussing the merits of the appendix program since in effect you are talking about "Purebreds" being declared an entire generation sooner.

 

[kfacres]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
  www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing. 

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually I would say that it is important if you are discussing the merits of the appendix program since in effect you are talking about "Purebreds" being declared an entire generation sooner.

of course, thst's it...  How much more does that peice of paper, and fraction generate to the marketplace and real world?

 

[JoeBnTN]

What was wrong with the lot 83 bull, the TM Gus X JPJ's mom?  Thought just from a genetics standpoint would have done better than $1800.

  You've got the wrong bull - the Gus was lot 81. Lot 83 was the loud colored Solution out of Jane Mary.  I don't have my catalog handy but I think the Gus bull brought $6500

 

[Okotoks]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
 www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing.  

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually yes it is important! Most registries for "purebred" livestock are concerned with maintaining purity. Registries that become unconcerned are usually in trouble in the commercial market place. In the European Union the Maine Anjou breed filed a complaint against the British Shorthorn Society for using Maine Genetics and overnight the British Shorthorn was relegated to "rare breed " status because the Maine blood was no longer able to be used and most animals became low percentage. In Canada under the Animal Pedigree Act purebred livestock have to be pure! (as in pure bred, as in a breed, not a tabulated ancestry of multiple breeds)

 

[Doc]

What was wrong with the lot 83 bull, the TM Gus X JPJ's mom?  Thought just from a genetics standpoint would have done better than $1800.

  You've got the wrong bull - the Gus was lot 81. Lot 83 was the loud colored Solution out of Jane Mary.  I don't have my catalog handy but I think the Gus bull brought $6500

Lot#81 was the Gus son , brought $5700 & went to a Steve Rowe
lot #83 was the Solutionist son out of Jane Mary & brought $1800

 

[JTM]

I totally understand the complaints about the red and white Maine's coming in at 3/4. Of course, most Shorthorn people realize that the original Maine Anjou was thought to be 50-65% Shorthorn but that was also a long time ago. I am one that has actually focused on using this rule to benefit from the hybrid vigor and still have high percentage, high quality maternal genetics. It is a great cross. We can debate whether or not it is right to have the rule or not, but the rule has basically made the Shorthorn breed in the U.S. what it is today. Some good things, some bad things. I think by taking some of the bloodlines created from this cross and coming back with an asterisk free Shorthorn you will yet again get some hybrid vigor due to the difference in pedigrees. In my opinion, the best cross is a Shorthorn x Maine Anjou x Angus.
The funny thing is with all of this is that the ASA office of registration currently believes that the Maine Anjou must be "solid red" in order to be dual registered as 3/4 Shorthorn.  (lol)

 

[kfacres]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
 www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing.  

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually yes it is important! Most registries for "purebred" livestock are concerned with maintaining purity. Registries that become unconcerned are usually in trouble in the commercial market place. In the European Union the Maine Anjou breed filed a complaint against the British Shorthorn Society for using Maine Genetics and overnight the British Shorthorn was relegated to "rare breed " status because the Maine blood was no longer able to be used and most animals became low percentage. In Canada under the Animal Pedigree Act purebred livestock have to be pure! (as in pure bred, as in a breed, not a tabulated ancestry of multiple breeds)

<deadhorse>

exactly my point...  "purebred" will never be "Purebred". 

Everyone always talks about how great the percentage programs are for the breed, as it relates to commercial acceptance...  Face it, commercial people don't give 2 cent's about that peice of paper...  All they care about is production, hybrid vigor, and profit. 

 

[Okotoks]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
 www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing.  

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually yes it is important! Most registries for "purebred" livestock are concerned with maintaining purity. Registries that become unconcerned are usually in trouble in the commercial market place. In the European Union the Maine Anjou breed filed a complaint against the British Shorthorn Society for using Maine Genetics and overnight the British Shorthorn was relegated to "rare breed " status because the Maine blood was no longer able to be used and most animals became low percentage. In Canada under the Animal Pedigree Act purebred livestock have to be pure! (as in pure bred, as in a breed, not a tabulated ancestry of multiple breeds)

<deadhorse>

exactly my point...  "purebred" will never be "Purebred". 

Everyone always talks about how great the percentage programs are for the breed, as it relates to commercial acceptance...  Face it, commercial people don't give 2 cent's about that peice of paper...  All they care about is production, hybrid vigor, and profit. 

That is not your point! Most commercial buyers I know study both the pedigrees, actual weights, ultrasound data and EPD's of the bulls they buy. Some of them know the pedigrees as well as purebred breeders. Commercial buyers know when they are buying fullblood, purebred or "composites". Most are aware that there are no short cuts that will do well for their breeding programs in the long run.

 

[kfacres]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
 www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing.  

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually yes it is important! Most registries for "purebred" livestock are concerned with maintaining purity. Registries that become unconcerned are usually in trouble in the commercial market place. In the European Union the Maine Anjou breed filed a complaint against the British Shorthorn Society for using Maine Genetics and overnight the British Shorthorn was relegated to "rare breed " status because the Maine blood was no longer able to be used and most animals became low percentage. In Canada under the Animal Pedigree Act purebred livestock have to be pure! (as in pure bred, as in a breed, not a tabulated ancestry of multiple breeds)

<deadhorse>

exactly my point...  "purebred" will never be "Purebred".  

Everyone always talks about how great the percentage programs are for the breed, as it relates to commercial acceptance...  Face it, commercial people don't give 2 cent's about that peice of paper...  All they care about is production, hybrid vigor, and profit.  

That is not your point! Most commercial buyers I know study both the pedigrees, actual weights, ultrasound data and EPD's of the bulls they buy. Some of them know the pedigrees as well as purebred breeders. Commercial buyers know when they are buying fullblood, purebred or "composites". Most are aware that there are no short cuts that will do well for their breeding programs in the long run.

sure they know the pedigrees, and performance- I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN"T..  but the question is.. do they need that peice of paper?

 

[Shady Lane]

79 was my pick of the bull offering too aj.  You think I might be a little bias?  Nah.

No doubt Lot 79 was a good bull but he was a half blood out of of a really good shorthorn cow.That should have good results about 100% of the time. Are there any other breed registries that actually take animals from other breeds herd books and assign them 75% blood status?
The lot 80 bull was a purebred so he probably appealed to a wider group of buyers. It will be interesting to see how Lot 80's brothers sell in the Sneed sale today.
 www.dvauction.com

I'm not sure that the breed association's method of calling 1/2 bloods 3/4/s is a positive thing.  

I also don't see what's not cool about using a 7/8 bull.. lot 79 would sire pb calves from pb cows.. I guess the ShortPlus people might not get along... but hey.

They don't call 1/2  bloods 3/4 bloods, they call 1/2 bloods 7/8 under the maine rule.

Fullblood maines taken into the SH book as 3/4 bloods.

cuz that's important

Actually yes it is important! Most registries for "purebred" livestock are concerned with maintaining purity. Registries that become unconcerned are usually in trouble in the commercial market place. In the European Union the Maine Anjou breed filed a complaint against the British Shorthorn Society for using Maine Genetics and overnight the British Shorthorn was relegated to "rare breed " status because the Maine blood was no longer able to be used and most animals became low percentage. In Canada under the Animal Pedigree Act purebred livestock have to be pure! (as in pure bred, as in a breed, not a tabulated ancestry of multiple breeds)

<deadhorse>

exactly my point...  "purebred" will never be "Purebred".  

Everyone always talks about how great the percentage programs are for the breed, as it relates to commercial acceptance...  Face it, commercial people don't give 2 cent's about that peice of paper...  All they care about is production, hybrid vigor, and profit.  

That is not your point! Most commercial buyers I know study both the pedigrees, actual weights, ultrasound data and EPD's of the bulls they buy. Some of them know the pedigrees as well as purebred breeders. Commercial buyers know when they are buying fullblood, purebred or "composites". Most are aware that there are no short cuts that will do well for their breeding programs in the long run.

sure they know the pedigrees, and performance- I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN"T..  but the question is.. do they need that peice of paper?

So what exactly is your point?

  You agree that commercial buyers need to know pedigree information and performance information..... Is that not exactly what is recorded on a pedigree or "paper"?

You argue the exact same point.

 

[justintime]

sure they know the pedigrees, and performance- I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN"T..  but the question is.. do they need that peice of paper?
[/quote]


" The Truth"  I don't know how many bulls you sell each year, but I can guarantee you that the commercial producers I sell bulls to want that piece of paper. Personally, I find that the commercial producers who come to look at bulls are truly a delight to deal with. Most of them have no preconceived notions before they walk into the bull pen and they consider the bull on it's own merit. I find that by the time a commercial man comes to buy his second bull, he is probably better educated on the pedigree information than most purebred breeders. Selling bulls to commercial producers is one of the best parts of this business, and I will guarantee that if I am a bit slow sending out the registration papers, it will be the commercial producers who phone to see when they are coming
On a personal note, you come across as being a very angry young man. For a while, I wondered it may be just me, but lately I have seen others commenting on this as well. I don't know what has caused you to be " abrasive" to say the least, but it is a poor way to promote yourself. I have never met you, nor do I know who you are, or where you raise cattle, but I have already wondered if I would ever buy cattle from someone with an attitude like you show. I am hoping I am wrong about the person you seem to portray on this very public forum.

 

[kfacres]

sure they know the pedigrees, and performance- I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN"T..  but the question is.. do they need that peice of paper?

" The Truth"  I don't know how many bulls you sell each year, but I can guarantee you that the commercial producers I sell bulls to want that piece of paper. Personally, I find that the commercial producers who come to look at bulls are truly a delight to deal with. Most of them have no preconceived notions before they walk into the bull pen and they consider the bull on it's own merit. I find that by the time a commercial man comes to buy his second bull, he is probably better educated on the pedigree information than most purebred breeders. Selling bulls to commercial producers is one of the best parts of this business, and I will guarantee that if I am a bit slow sending out the registration papers, it will be the commercial producers who phone to see when they are coming
On a personal note, you come across as being a very angry young man. For a while, I wondered it may be just me, but lately I have seen others commenting on this as well. I don't know what has caused you to be " abrasive" to say the least, but it is a poor way to promote yourself. I have never met you, nor do I know who you are, or where you raise cattle, but I have already wondered if I would ever buy cattle from someone with an attitude like you show. I am hoping I am wrong about the person you seem to portray on this very public forum.
[/quote]

applaudes to you for being the shorthorn savior, and making millions towards you living and working full time in the cattle business.  I guess you want to hear that I envy you and love reading your long drawn out BS stories. 

It's been a few weeks since my karma has gone down, who wants to be the first?

 

[justintime]

sure they know the pedigrees, and performance- I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN"T..  but the question is.. do they need that peice of paper?

" The Truth"  I don't know how many bulls you sell each year, but I can guarantee you that the commercial producers I sell bulls to want that piece of paper. Personally, I find that the commercial producers who come to look at bulls are truly a delight to deal with. Most of them have no preconceived notions before they walk into the bull pen and they consider the bull on it's own merit. I find that by the time a commercial man comes to buy his second bull, he is probably better educated on the pedigree information than most purebred breeders. Selling bulls to commercial producers is one of the best parts of this business, and I will guarantee that if I am a bit slow sending out the registration papers, it will be the commercial producers who phone to see when they are coming
On a personal note, you come across as being a very angry young man. For a while, I wondered it may be just me, but lately I have seen others commenting on this as well. I don't know what has caused you to be " abrasive" to say the least, but it is a poor way to promote yourself. I have never met you, nor do I know who you are, or where you raise cattle, but I have already wondered if I would ever buy cattle from someone with an attitude like you show. I am hoping I am wrong about the person you seem to portray on this very public forum.

applaudes to you for being the shorthorn savior, and making millions towards you living and working full time in the cattle business.  I guess you want to hear that I envy you and love reading your long drawn out BS stories. 

It's been a few weeks since my karma has gone down, who wants to be the firstrovin
[/quote]


The truth...... I probably should be thanking you for proving my point. I meant my comments to be constructive in nature, and I was truly hoping you would show me some evidence that you were not as confrontational and negative as you tend to show yourself on here. I guess that isn't going to happen. You don't have to worry about me giving you negative karma points  as I won't do it. And stupid comments about me being the Shorthorn Savior are not required either. I am about as ordinary as you get anywhere, and I happen to make my living from my cows,. Is that a terrible thing?  You can be on your own from here bud... I was just trying to help, but it is most evident you don't want any help from anyone and you could care less how your attitude is going to affect any success you have in this business. I would have thought that somewhere in your growing up years, someone would have mentioned to you that your attitude will affect your success even more than the cattle you raise.  Good luck with your life!