Surge

[librarian]

Does anyone have pictures of 2015 Surge calves or comments on how the calves compare to other calves from the same cows?

 

[shortybreeder]

Which Surge? If you're talking the old shorthorn bull then idk if there are many (or any) 2015 calves

 

[librarian]

Yes, the old one, Mollie's Defender Adair.
Maybe there are calves out there that haven't been registered. I remember someone saying they were going to experiment with him.

 

[sue]

I am not sure how closely related this fella is to surge- I see Cherry and Adair.  Look him up - I have a photo somewhere in this mess of old magazines.  Reg # 3670878, PECKS bIG rED .  Dual but moderate and heavy muscled.

 

[librarian]

Sue, what is the history of Wexvale? Big Red was used pretty heavily there.

 

[cflem]

Peck's Big Red was bred by LLoyd Peck at Geary, OK. He raised dual type Shorthorns. There was a white heifer that was winning in the mid-west in the early 80's that he raised. I used to visit with him years ago. He also raised English Shepard dogs.

 

[sue]

Sue, what is the history of Wexvale? Big Red was used pretty heavily there.

Twin sisters married twin brothers and they bred dual polled Shorthorns. Line breeding and very moderate dual genetics and also  advocates of performance testing. I spent some time with Florence and Eric ( her son) a couple of afternoons several years back. She kinda helped with the dual breeding and different programs around. HUB's was a familar program for me and in fact they in years past purchased polled bulls from Wexvale and haul em back to Kansas to sell to breeders not wanting the HUB's horned genetics. Haumont of course made polled dual cattle- HUB's offered an outcross by hauling 11 polled bulls from Wexvale. In fact if you know some of the Elbee breeding - you'll find a Wexvale bull in the pedigrees way back ( Darrells sire) . Dual breeders paid a significant premium to paper bulls and females back in the day....  talk about passionate shorthorn breeders.  Florence gave Dick Braham ( of Michigan also and was owner of Thornwood Major) alot of credit for changing this as dual breeding was needed and yet very expensive.My notes with Florence and several magazines are around here. I do know that not all dual influence was a "dairy type". Florence has passed on - great lady . Alot of people over the recent years visited with her and used Roan Harvest Duke or Polar Bear. The last time I saw florence's herd she had a son of Ready Go-

 

[r.n.reed]

My first experience with Wexvale was in 1974 when on the recommendation of Clarence Forgey I went to the herd of George Reichelt where I purchased the foundation to my Princess cow family.This was a small herd of about 20 cows most of whom were daughters of Meadowbrook White Coat 3rd.I only saw pictures of this bull but he was probably one of the most impressive bulls I have ever seen pictured or in person.He weighed over 1300lbs at a year and was long, deep, thick, and sound.His dam was Wexvale Prides Princess also the dam of Meadowbrook Prince 16th.Her dam was Lakeside Princess 4th who was probably the most influential foundation cow for the Wexvale herd.I later tried to buy Meadowbrook White Coat the 4th from another breeder but it was discovered that he had froze his testicles.He was out of a full sister to the 3rd.I did manage to get a cow bought that was bred similar to the 4th and 4508's dam goes back to her.I keep a picture of the 4th in the top drawer of my desk  for reference.
In 1984 I spent a couple days with John Gustafson,we spent all day looking at cattle and all night discussing all things Shorthorn.As I look back on it now this was probably my first look at a Holistic approach to raising cattle.Their approach was to improve the farm with the cattle and they realized that the farm needed the cattle to reach optimum production.The cow herd at that time was between 50 and 60 cows and had 2 crosses of Haumont bulls at that time.The original foundation was old Indiana polled x horned dual cattle.The cows were extremely uniform and weighed between 1250-1350 in good breeding condition.One of the things that impressed me the most about them at that time was their smoothness and John attributed that to the Haumont influence.
There were several of these polled dual herds in this area and the pedigrees were quite similar throughout the herds.John knew these herds as well as his own and told the story about a certain Beef breeder from South Dakota who bought a couple of pot belly loads of cows from his neighbors.A year or two later John visited that herd and exclaimed that he knew those cows but the pro pietor told him he was mistaken and that they were his Surprise line of breeding.
Pecks Big Red was used after I was there.He added size and some performance but a lot of his offsping were patchy and there was something about his structure that made them look put together in my minds eye.In 1988 they bought a son of McLeod from me.The herd had been downsized in numbers by that time.

 

[sue]

Gary, I have heard the  "beef breeder stories " from other dual breeders too and I am not sure why you would be ashamed to use dual influence even back that many years ago?  Glad you met John before he passed, I recall a Picnic in the late 80's and he passed on shortly after that time. Truly a great breeder from Michigan.
I also have heard the foundation female story regarding Lakeside Princess 4th - this was a herd in Northern Michigan and not the herd my grand father started. We did not use the prefix Lakeside until my dad started out of High School, in the mid 1950's. Before this time it was McLachlan Brothers.

 

[r.n.reed]

Sue, I think it was more of the fact that the duals were not eligible for registry in the ASA at that time and after that it was probably the 250.00 per head fee to register them.
I was at that picnic you mentioned as Wolf Ridge McLeod was on display.The thing I remember the most was John taking me aside to show me a cow with a bull calf he had hidden away.The calf was by his McLeod bull and was slated to be his next herd sire.John was afraid someone would talk him out of the calf.For all I knew he might have hauled every one at the picnic over there.It was a pretty impressive pair.

 

[JPS]

Thanks for sharing all.  I enjoy the benefit of your cumulative knowledge of the history of the breed.