TH/PHA test

[DL]

I have never had any testing done due to the fact that I raise Angus and TH and PHA is not an issue.  What is the usual amount of time that this takes to get results?  I wonder when they are going to come out with a test for the curly calf gene and who will handle the tests? 

from what I hear TH may now be an issue too

It is likely that the TH reported in Angus cattle was actually CCS - those TH calves with AI Angus sires did not parentally verify to the Angus sire - thus they is not evidence that TH is a problem in the Angus, however CCS can look to the uninitiated like TH. Again points out the need for a necropsy on defective calves. My suspicion is that they saw twisted legs and called it TH - not looking for those other things that go along with it - abdominal hernia, meningocele, cryptorchid etc - an honest mistake calling it TH before CCS was discovered but one that could have been avoided with a careful examination.

Re the CCS test - they are moving rapidly - Dr Beever and Barrel Racer are working on identifying the CCS gene and I suspect he will handle the test (in contrast to the long nosed dwarf which is handled by MMI). The Angus breed is of course facing their own set of challenges with CCS, FCS and the RA with Marble Bone - there are updates weekly or biweekly on the Angus site re CCS and the RA site now has 4 carrier bulls for MB - which likely trace back to ancient Black Angus ---> a foundation RA bull

Again I would request if you get weird calves - do the right thing

red - 98.6?  I think the nose probably dissipates a lot of heat

 

[red]

DL- actually I've been running a low grade fever for several weeks! Also maybe as I get closer to 50 I might be mellowing out some? Of course the valium can't be hurting my frame of mind!

One of my questions is this- if the calf is clean by parental verification how do you go about reporting that? Also will ssales take that infor or are you still required to submit a test?

a more mellow Red

 

[Jill]

I don't know if sales accept it, but on the registration papers it states free by PV

 

[red]

do you submit there status or just the AMAA have them on file?

thanks Jill!

 

[roycattle]

I started this post and maybe after reading some other comments I was a little hard on them, Agrigenomics is not a joke they just can not do things in a timely manner.  I guess if you want to argue what is timely have at it but 4 weeks and still no results is not timely to me.  According to other posters they are busy trying to find other genetic defects along with processing TH and PHA.  I do not have a problem with this, and I am glad they have located the traits for TH and PHA.  However sell the patent and let another company run the test.  Oh by the way I contacted the shorthorn assn and they told me that they didi not have my results and they were having troubles getting in contact with agrigenomics.  This is just my experience and Im using this forum to vent.

 

[Doc]

i got my Maine memo e-mail yesterday talking about the GAB tab(Genetic Abnormality) when you are looking at a pedigree online. I like the idea & wish the Shorthorn Assoc. would do the same.

 

[knabe]

this has nothing to do w/ Barrel Racer or Dr B. What burns my buns is that sellers pay large amounts for their sale catalog & no results listed. Most say that the list will be available at the sale. I  hate to be looking hard at a heifer & then find out she's a carrier. They've had plenty of time to  know what will be in their sale. Why can't they get the test done in time?

OK, off my soapbox.  (argue)
Red

Welcome back red - you need to see a vet about your nose

I am with you 100% - people sure don't plan ahead - your sale is in October and you send your samples in September the day after the catalog is printed - is an emergency TH test like emergency health papers??

Get with it folks - I don't want a commercial lab like Igenity to run my TH and PHA tests  - I want someone who cares and does an excellent job with the science - if you send your sample on Wed and it gets there on Friday do you really think they will have answers by Monday?? This isn't a test like the pregnency tests you buy - there are multiple steps and isolating DNA is first (we will let knabe pontificate here) you want results - plan ahead and QYB

at our company, we just finished an automated 96 well RNA extraction process which takes about 5.5 hours per 96 samples.  The robot for this costs about $400,000.  it took about 3 months time to optimize this, and we literally debugged each robotic step, including which steps could use the same pipette tips, and which steps required a tip change every sample. 

the cost iis about 4x savings if done by hand.  an automated DNA process takes about 2.5 hours, again, with robot.  i could be wrong, but i don't think the lab has automated the DNA extraction process.  other process are hand driven.  it probably would benefit the lab if it could incorporate some automation including a sample tracking database.

these improvements would have to come from somewhere, is, increased test costs, a new grant which included improvements, which is typical for university funding projects.  it would be my assumption that this is the idea all along.

the nice thing about companies like igenity and bovigen, is that they can use hair samples, and still retain enough DNA for multiple tests.  they can even do it from semen samples.  I will add, that i sent a semen sample to agrigenomcis on a dead sire with extremely limited semen, had the PHA/TH test done, had some semen spotted on a card sent to UC davis, had that fail, then had some DNA sent from agrigenomics to bovigen, had them do their tests, have enough DNA to "resend" to davis to do genotyping, and bovigen still had enough to do several tests for future markers.

this is not a trivial process.  probably the hardest think is to link samples in a database and put a front end on it so lab personnel can run the process transparently and have enough info to track down errors, problems etc.

 

[chambero]

If they sold their rights to the test you'd be paying a whole lot more for it.  And probably not get results much faster.

I don't know the ins/outs of how they run their business, but I do deal with other types of laboratories a lot and "simple" chemistry tests often take a month to get the paperwork back out of a commercial lab.  This stuff is not nearly as easy to do.

Unfortunately it just takes a while.  I had one bull tested last fall and probably got verbal results within about a month if I remember correctly.  And that was before they got inundated with the stuff they are having to deal with for the Angus Assoc. 

We might not like it, but their work on the Angus defects is a lot more important to the greater good than tests on our few show cattle. 

If you are just worried about TH, honestly you can probably guess pretty closely whether they are a carrier or not by looking at them.

 

[oakbar]

When you consider the total number of cattle in the Angus breed that would need to be tested when a test is developed, the time needed for testing could really spiral out of control.  The number of tests for CCS would make the PHA and Th numbers pale in comparison!!

 

[Cattledog]

When you consider the total number of cattle in the Angus breed that would need to be tested when a test is developed, the time needed for testing could really spiral out of control.   The number of tests for CCS would make the PHA and Th numbers pale in comparison!!

Here is an interesting number for you.  A reliable source told me that there are over 60 thousand decendants and double bred 1680's out there right now. 

 

[justme]

I hurried and am sending our test in tomorrow.  To be in the maine sale at Iowa Beef Expo I need that test result by Dec.1 in my hand.  It worries me to see if I get it in time.  What will happen when they start doing the CC test?  This could be a nightmare...will they start focusing on the angus since they have more numbers?  Just a thought to consider

 

[Cattledog]

I hurried and am sending our test in tomorrow.  To be in the maine sale at Iowa Beef Expo I need that test result by Dec.1 in my hand.  It worries me to see if I get it in time.  What will happen when they start doing the CC test?  This could be a nightmare...will they start focusing on the angus since they have more numbers?  Just a thought to consider

I imagine that they will test the major AI bulls that have 1680 in their pedigree first.  This could eliminate some of the need to test descendants(sp?).  Think about it, most active angus that have 1680 are out of his sons.  E161, Future Direction, Grid Maker is out of a 1680 cow that has 7.5 million in progeny, and there more that I haven't mentioned.  Then you have all of their sons.  I pray that E161 is clean!  I think that he is best son of 1680 and I love his offspring!  They kind of bridge the carcass and the show traits. 

 

[sunny]

Justme, good luck on getting test results by Dec 1!  I sent ours in mid August, and still haven't heard a word.  Called about a month ago, wanted results before our sale, but nothing yet at that time.  When I heard about the whole curly calf mess with the angus I figured that is what has them so far behind.  I have had results within two weeks the past two years.  We test our crossbred heifers with carrier bloodlines, so no way to get results from breed associations.  Thank goodness the buyers of the heifers were not so concerned with carrier status - they just need to know if they are carriers before they breed them next spring.  Hope things are better by next summer, but could be much worse once all these angus need tested!

 

[red]

just to let people know, they've hired a new person to help out w/ sending out info.

Red

 

[rex]

they need to make a test where the animal just pees on it and it turns blue if it is pha and it turns pink if its th and if it does not turn any color that means you are good  (thumbsup)

 

[oakview]

I sent in sample on 9-22 so I could have results in time for catalog printing (10-20 deadline) for a December sale I'm consigning to.  I e-mailed Agrigenomics Monday asking them to e-mail results when complete, they e-mailed results within 12 hours.  I've had all positive experiences with Agrigenomics, other than a few THCs I didn't necessarily want, but that wasn't their fault.