I got to see the herf bull Durango at select sires, very impressive! I have never owned a herf in my life but I have to say that out of all the bulls at Rocky Mtn. Durango was in the very top 3 when I was there. Very long, smooth made, sound and way above average for muscle expression, especially top shape. I was literally in awe with this bull. I would try him to get a purebred papered bull and say pee on the defect carrier clubby if you are wanting a bull, now if you were shooting for steers I would say go ahead and rock on with the Carpe Diem. JMHO