Tyranny

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chambero

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My goodness, did any of you ever go to junior high or high school history class?  If you want to argue against endangered species laws and the trickle down consequences those have on the use of public land that's a perfectly valid opinion. 

Anybody remember those little minor events in our nation's history such as the Louisiana Purchase, etc.  Most of Nevada was actually acquired by the federal government as part of the Mexican Cession in 1848.  ALL western land was initially acquired by the federal government and then pieces of it were transferred to private ownership through the various types of homestead acts.  There was never an act to transfer 600,000 acres of land to this dude's ancestors.  States control water law, and by some odd provision apparently this guy might be able to claim ownership of some water rights associated with this land, but not the surface itself - and those water rights were not something they ever paid for.

I'm not particularly familiar with the Mormon migration that settled much of Utah and Nevada, but they and the federal government have more than a little bit of stormy history.  Frankly, this is a continuation of that.  A lot of folks in that region suffer from a persecution compex regarding compliance with any federal laws - involving things like polygamy, etc, - and this is the extreme outcome of that.

The federal government owns that land and they should have the right to lease it or not just like private landowners do.  If he does have prior appropriation rights to water under state law, frankly the government needs to condemn them and pay fair market value for them - which is probably miniscule in that region. 

We have the right to influence big picture decisions on public land management through elections.  If you look back to when this started, it was likely Republicans in congress and a conservative president.

The reality is there is a lot more land in this country much better suited to cattle grazing than this area.  And there are whole lot more cows than desert tortoises.

 

knabe

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homesteaders didn't pay for their land and mineral rights.


of course don't tell that to a homesteader, as they view their sweat as payment.


harry reid doesn't care about the desert tortoise. he cares about water for his buddies.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1686786/posts


more lies about tortoises


http://tomdarby.me/2014/04/04/the-many-scandals-of-harry-reid-part-1/

http://www.epw.senate.gov/107th/rei_1019.htm

The Nevada Habitat Conservation Plan for the Desert Tortoise, a plan that encompasses 5.6 million acres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Whittemore


i think a little more balanced examination of all the interests involved would be a little more prudent.


if gay marriage is ok, then so is polygamy. i really don't see the need to restrict freedom any more. perhaps government should get out of property and marriage.


 

chambero

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Protection of the desert tortoise under yhe endangered species act began in 1980 under Reagan most of the subsequent restrictions were done prior to the first Bush leaving office.

Ranchers across the US lose leases on private land all the time and have to adjust to find more land.

Any man dumb enough to want to put up with more than one wife should be allowed to do so - and vice versa
 

knabe

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Meanwhile, reid and his cronies make billions and destoy thousands of acres of desert tortoise land, redraw water rights and usage to grow a city in a desert requiring all the water rights of the surrounding area. They foresaw this years ago and were complicitmin using the unlimited power of the government to do the very thing they accuse others of. Doesnt sound very green to me.


In my town, we call that hypocrisy.  The fraud committed is on such a massive scale there is really no law to constrain it.
 

RankeCattleCo

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knabe said:
Meanwhile, reid and his cronies make billions and destoy thousands of acres of desert tortoise land, redraw water rights and usage to grow a city in a desert requiring all the water rights of the surrounding area. They foresaw this years ago and were complicitmin using the unlimited power of the government to do the very thing they accuse others of. Doesnt sound very green to me.


In my town, we call that hypocrisy.  The fraud committed is on such a massive scale there is really no law to constrain it.

This is what pisses me off. They won't let him ranch, but are literally SLAUGHTERING desert tortoises that are brought in by developers.

Spring is the prime time for these tortoises as far as hatching and such go (supposedly), so why are the Feds driving truck and traitors and SUV's all over the tortoises? Please, enlighten me to this.
 

chambero

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I can assure you NOBODY is doing any harm to the stupid turtles.  Quit exagerating.  Even the Army has to jump through extreme hurdles to avoid them at the National Training Center in Ft Erwin, CA.
 

GoWyo

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Cattle never did any harm to the stupid tortoises either, but the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and the BLM used it as a pretext to start getting rid of livestock grazing.  Every area has the surrogate species to get people off the land, starting with the most tenuous property interests and then moving to the more solid property interests.

First they came for the BLM grazing permit holder and I did not speak out because I was not a BLM grazer.

Then they came for the farmers who received their water from federal water projects initiated a hundred years ago under the Reclamation Law and I did not speak out because I was not an irrigator dependent on federal irrigation projects.

Then they came for the chicken farmers and I did not speak out because I was not a chicken farmer.

Then they came for pig farmers and I did not speak out because I was not a pig farmer.

Then they came for the "factory farmer" and I did not speak out because I was not a factory farmer.

Then they came for me, a landowner, who bought and paid for my land, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

(Credit to Pastor Niemoller)
 

knabe

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chambero said:
I can assure you NOBODY is doing any harm to the stupid turtles.  Quit exagerating.  Even the Army has to jump through extreme hurdles to avoid them at the National Training Center in Ft Erwin, CA.

And not the rancher either. The developemwnt and wild horses do far more damage than this rancher ever thought about doing I ASSURE YOU. 

Seriously, all development displaces animals and some people have more resources and friends to make the whole process a lot easier. When Reid and his cronies started a slow motion conspiracy to put ranchers out of business and all you can come up with is oh well, people lose and need to move, that's pretty pathetic. All the government has to do to violate the endangered species act is say its in the public good and the get to do whatever they want. I know first hand with a college development on my back door with endangered kit foxes, burrowing owls, tiger salamanders, red legged frogs, shrikes, blunt nosed lizards. They are able to ignore all of it. The bulldozed fields for days before a kit fox survey to bury burrows and destroy ponds. I have no more automatic respect for the government. If only the Feds were this energetic about illegal aliens and other law breakers, yes white collar crime. Instead, holder has the gall to say he's not going to put the amount of drugs so mandatory sentencing doesn't apply when instead he could have dropped the charges in the first place and all because he's racist because we all know who is getting caught. Which is where I agree w xbar. Drop the stupid drug charges. It's ruining people's lIves and is a complete waste of money and only serves to militarize ever office of our government.
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
Have you been to Bakersfield?

I might add I had a fiend in college who's parents had a license or something to house native turtles near Bakersfield. I think they belong to a club.
 

GoWyo

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Clark County, Nevada has the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center where they house displaced tortoises from real estate development or that people brought in as former pets, etc.  It was affectionately known as the Desert Tortoise Concentration Camp because the things go there and die.  The Center was funded through development assessments.  However, recently, the Center has only received something like $280,000 and needed almost a Million to keep the doors open.  Apparently tortoises can't be put back in the desert due to disease issues and their survival rate is really low when transplanted, so now the Conservation Center really is going to be a Concentration Camp and will be euthanizing tortoises.  There is no lack of irony when the Endangered Species Act is invoked.
 

knabe

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Saw this somewhere else. The graduation act of 1853 allowed the organized sale of federal lands. Fancy that. There is a way for the Feds to LOSE THEIR "LEASE"

Screw em and their lifetime benefits and better salaries and safe jobs.
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
That is the very essence of the liberal outlook.  Instead of opinions being held dogmatically, as is the case with conservatives, they are held tentatively and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment.


http://capitolfax.com/2014/04/09/we-have-a-half/


here's someone getting some new information and incorporating it.  wow, look how progressive she is.  she got some new information, determined it was half-borderline and offered a half apology with her half brain. notice she validated her lapse because she's for the children. michael richards and fuzzy zoeller and reverend wright and jesse jackson should have been so responsive to new information.
 

RankeCattleCo

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THank you for sharing those links. I encourage people to keep posting news as it comes in regarding this topic.

Destroying privately owned infrastructure... What a joke. Cows will be dying of milk fever and calves of starvation.. Cows and calves alike from dehydration and overheating...

Atleast they got 30 cows back. It's a small amount, but it's still a victory against the Feds!
 

knabe

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The federal government is the new god.

They are omnipotent and infallible.

Thou shall put no other god before them.

......

......
 
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