University of Illinois Sire Test

[huntaway]

On top of this, for whatever reason, IGS has the shorthorn breed buried in a hole when compared to the other breeds. A suggestion that would address this issue has been brought up to the powers that be, but the potential results are feared.

How do we address the issue of the ISG hole for Shorthorns?
Isn't ISG basically Simmental leading the way with other breeds collaborating?

Would it help if people put Shorthorn Bulls in as Foundation animals in the Simmental database and turned in data to Simmental.

Would it help to put Simmental bulls in the Shorthorn database as Foundation animals with data collected and turned in to Shorthorn.

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud of another breed that they do not personally own into the Shorthorn database?

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud from Shorthorn that they do not personally own into the Simmental database?

I know with the small numbers I have (roughly 10-15 Shorthorn females and 10-15 Simmental females) that it would not make much of a dent in the data.  The question is would it help enough to make a difference?

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

 

[phillse]

I agree. I wasn't being critical.

I did not think you were being critical.  In fact you are correct that for the most part terminal traits and maternal do not really mix. 

In truth, if someone claims cattle line "xyz" can do it all they have a line that really does nothing well.  That being said there has to be acceptable levels of performance that can then be line crossed or crossbred to produce desired market terminal animals.

 

[Medium Rare]

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

How far out is this?

I've been waiting to see what happens to Kookaburra's numbers after hundreds of his progeny scans hit the IGS system.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Thats the kind of real world testing that needs to get out-I hate to say It-I think there would be alot more of credibility with everyday commercial people if you guys could get the numbers out rather than an Association -And PS-I saw the ad on  your 2 young sale bull calves coming up-I dont rant on Canadian genetics much-but they are WAY GOOD-Looked em up-JMO some of the cattle like Sonny and CSF Optimizer have to add to my version of eye candy-BUT THAT BULL SASKVALLEY CHALLENGER sure must be a changer BW wise along with being thick-even though his EPDS do not reflect that yet. Have the ones you have had all been low BW like  the two I"m writing about? O0

 

[coyote]

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.

 

[phillse]

Newest article release.
https://shorthorn.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Sire-Test-Performance-Review-Feb19.pdf

 

[wiseguy]

Thats the kind of real world testing that needs to get out-I hate to say It-I think there would be alot more of credibility with everyday commercial people if you guys could get the numbers out rather than an Association -And PS-I saw the ad on  your 2 young sale bull calves coming up-I dont rant on Canadian genetics much-but they are WAY GOOD-Looked em up-JMO some of the cattle like Sonny and CSF Optimizer have to add to my version of eye candy-BUT THAT BULL SASKVALLEY CHALLENGER sure must be a changer BW wise along with being thick-even though his EPDS do not reflect that yet. Have the ones you have had all been low BW like  the two I"m writing about? O0

Thanks Mark. Challenger has done a great job thus far. He does seem to be moderating BW, while not giving up much in terms of performance. I agree that with time his EPDs will adjust to fall more in line with what we are experiencing. I need to send in his DNA to get genomic epds. He was slated to go in this years sire test, but when I called Matt to enter him they already had all the slots full. I appreciate the kind words on the sale bulls. Maybe I'll start a thread on them once we are done picturing this weekend.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I"d sure like to see them from behind-Stevie Wonder could see the quality in those calves-If you can created a package like them that is CE retains  the look:along with at least the carcass quality of the big bull ;you would have something there. With a combo that alot of people could use-Someone with the wherewithall-needs to flush one of Wernings best Red Simm cows to a bull along the lines of your younger ones-And come up with one that is showy enough to sire calves for people as a plus. The plus bulls Ive seen lately that are showing dont show me a whole lot:I think people would use a really good one:if it had all the goods-I think the Same thing about the two Commodity sons of Dales and Docs-Re potential uses.What I do not have is an in depth knowledge of where simms actually are in terms of the important traits O0

 

[RyanChandler]

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.

Being lighter than ‘the average Australia shorthorn bull’ certainly doesn’t equate to being calving ease. 

This highlights why knowing what breed average is before looking at epds is so important.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

RE Gardiner Angus x Shorthorn feedlot results.Do an article of your own in one of the well read MAGS Midwestern farmer or whatever-The carcass results dont lie-and thats the end result the true end users (the ones that eat the beef or serve it in thier establishments) are looking for. You are plenty qualified: and it really doesnt take a mind boogling array of mathematical juxtaposistions-x number of steers sird by x y z Shorthorn bulls on frmales sired by  Pine Drive Big Sky (just kidding) and xyz a bc d Angus sires as a typical cross section gained x amount and graded this many Choice Prime select etc-The highest number in the History of cattle or whatever you can draw as a true comparison to similar tests O0

 

[huntaway]

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

How far out is this?

I've been waiting to see what happens to Kookaburra's numbers after hundreds of his progeny scans hit the IGS system.

I'm not sure. I know that they did a mock run and there was some movement in the ranking of bulls. The breeder i talked to felt bulls with more American influence were benefited more but they must have been happy enough to decide to go that way. I think the ability to utilise DNA was the main advantage and what they were not offered through ABRI

The main test will be if you can select a trait and by using high ranking sires for that trait move your herd in that direction. The ABRI EBV's have shown to be able to do this in a number of progeny tests.

 

[huntaway]

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.

I have seen this and the reverse a number of times. I dont think they have the focus on bwt that North America do so it wouldn't surprise me if their average birthweight was higher.

 

[beebe]

What a shame they did not do a shear force test while they were collecting data.

 

[knabe]

What a shame they did not do a shear force test while they were collecting data.

cost. a 1" square or close to that is taken out of a cooked piece of meat.  thats probably why.


thats why people are working on other techniques.

 

[beebe]

I am working with Dr. Allen Williams ultra sound that measures tenderness.  My Shorthorn cows did extremely well compared to the rest of my cows.  I suggested it to the commercial acceptance committee but there seems to be little interest.  If they would ultra sound them before they harvested them and did the shear force test, they would know if it was accurate.  If it is then they could know while an animal is still alive.  That would be a real asset in breeding choices.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Who is on this “commercial acceptance committee” ?

It’s clear to me the higher ups in the shorthorn breed don’t want commercial acceptance. They want to keep doing what they’re doing. A small group of breeders control the direction of the whole breed. What a joke.

 

[Boreal]

I am working with Dr. Allen Williams ultra sound that measures tenderness.  My Shorthorn cows did extremely well compared to the rest of my cows.  I suggested it to the commercial acceptance committee but there seems to be little interest.  If they would ultra sound them before they harvested them and did the shear force test, they would know if it was accurate.  If it is then they could know while an animal is still alive.  That would be a real asset in breeding choices.

It’s certainly an interesting exercise, and would perhaps be useful to know which animals exhibit a greater degree of tenderness - as it is obviously strongly linked to profitability of slaughtered cattle. Again though, most ranchers profit from live cattle and tenderness appears (with the limited research done) to be a terminal trait inversely correlated with skeletal maturity. Would selecting for tenderness inadvertently select for later maturing (less fertile) cattle? If tender beef is the goal, above all else, why not use a breed like Piedmontese in a rota-terminal system?

 

[knabe]

how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?


the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.


no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.


the above is already underway.

 

[Boreal]

how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


You answered your question: the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.

why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?

If you wanna breed heifers at 2 you could use that argument. Otherwise early maturing = more likely to breed first cycle = more likely to calve at 2 = more likely to rebreed.




no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.

You may be right here but sounds pretty snake-oily to me.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?


the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.


no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.


the above is already underway.

How does one profit? In my world, a more tender product equals happier customers which lead to more customers. Giving me more opportunities to avoid the sale barn. Locally produced food is hot right now. We just signed on to a farmers market to sell beef as well as pork. A nice tender cut of meat is a great way for return customers. If I can promote the shorthorn breed in any favorable light that is legit, it’s an additional win. In order to find a niche, your product has to stand out. Tenderness is above all else critical to a good eating experience