What ever happened to honest judges

[Show Heifer]

I have long said  : A steer/heifer show is just that, a SHOW. That is why it is called a steer show, heifer show. It is a beauty contest. The best hair wins. The best cosmetic job wins. OR else why is sullivans giving out 20 grand in scholarships?  They can do that because it is a SHOW, and we spend MILLIONS making them LOOK good.
Now, I have noticed that it is not called a MARKET steer show, which would indicate to me, it is a class for MARKET type animals.

What confuses me is breeding heifer shows, when many have never been bred, even past that magical 15 month age.  I guess that is when "oh, we are flushing her" comes in.

As much as I hate to say it: A cattle show is just that. A SHOW. A beauty contest. Compare it to Ms.America or the Ms Universe contest if you want. Be honest, if you were looking for someone to do the laundry, mow the yard, or do your heart surgery, I am  willing to bet you wouldn't go those contest to make your selection!  Same goes for taking cattle home that will work in the pasture.

Everything in the world is based on personal opinion, and personal connections. Get used to it. Accept the fact that politics will play a part SOME/MOST of the time, and move on. I have seen a lot of shows that have been determined by "personal connections" and I have seen my share that have been strictly placed by the cattle.  If you are in the cattle showing industry to win all the time, then you need to either adjust your goals, or get out.

 

[knabe]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

 

[shortyjock89]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

If they start picking them that way around here, I imagine I'll stop showing cattle.  Go judge a feed lot if you want "real world". This is a SHOW we're talking about.

 

[Show Heifer]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

Has donald trump ever looked for a ms. USA contestant in a factory or the streets of Souix City?

I hate to think I am defending the "show industry" but lets face it, the "real world cattle" and "show cattle" are two different worlds. Admit it and move on.

 

[SouthWest]

Is it possible for a judge pick an animal using industry specs?  An animal that is high yielding, grades (depends on what the choice/select spread is for that week), hits industry target wieghts (1280-1360), yield grade 1-2......(all industry standards)....while being long, deep bodied, squared hipped, carries deep down his round, big boned, sound as a cat?  Yes it is.  Some judges get programmed at college team and never get updated on current standards.  The best judges I have seen have come from cattle ranches that raise both show and commercial cattle that are in touch with feeders.  They have a current idea on the industry.  Donald Trump doesn't look for Ms. America in the streets of downtown but he also doesn't pick plastic surgeons to judge or define beauty.  The fox doesn't judge the hen house.

 

[knabe]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

If they start picking them that way around here, I imagine I'll stop showing cattle.  Go judge a feed lot if you want "real world". This is a SHOW we're talking about.

why do you think it would be negative?  i just asked if anyone did it, not that we should convert to it.  sheesh.

 

[Show Heifer]

Is it possible for a judge pick an animal using industry specs?  An animal that is high yielding, grades (depends on what the choice/select spread is for that week), hits industry target wieghts (1280-1360), yield grade 1-2......(all industry standards)....while being long, deep bodied, squared hipped, carries deep down his round, big boned, sound as a cat?  Yes it is.  Some judges get programmed at college team and never get updated on current standards.  The best judges I have seen have come from cattle ranches that raise both show and commercial cattle that are in touch with feeders.  They have a current idea on the industry.  Donald Trump doesn't look for Ms. America in the streets of downtown but he also doesn't pick plastic surgeons to judge or define beauty.  The fox doesn't judge the hen house.

Might want to look into that a bit more SouthWest.... if I recall correctly, when my Aunt was in the Ms. America pagent, the panal included a tv producers, a former winner, and a model agency.... not exactly IQ type judges!

You do make a good point about judges picking the combination animal, the problem is, many times, that animal isn't in the show ring, and when the winner is picked, the trend is set for the next 6 months. Heck, look at when and how the smokes came into "favor".... didn't happen until one single judge had the guts to pick something but black, and WHAM, the next best thing to sliced bread was born and that was a smoke colored critter.

 

[JoeBnTN]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

It used to happen frequently - there were a number of good judges who had backgrounds in either the commercial sector or the feedlot/packing business.  The best I know in that group was Dick Jurgens - he judged every major steer show in the country, including Louisville and Denver, and did a great job of getting animals that looked the part AND had the goods under the hide.  I worked the ring with him one time at a 250 head terminal steer show.  His Champion steer ended up 3rd on the rail, his reserve was in the top 10.  The on-rail champion was unsound in the ring and couldn't be used under any circumstance. 

Showing under people like Dick wasn't that difficult - you just had to be sure you had one that hadn't been too manufactured.  Unfortunately very few people today know how to see under the hide/hair.

 

[shortyjock89]

has a fair board ever picked a judge from a packer?

If they start picking them that way around here, I imagine I'll stop showing cattle.  Go judge a feed lot if you want "real world". This is a SHOW we're talking about.

why do you think it would be negative?  i just asked if anyone did it, not that we should convert to it.  sheesh.

Because most of them don't know what a good one looks like with the hide still on.

 

[farmin female]

Our county has a rule that you cannot show an animal purchased from the judge's herd or it is an ethics violation.  That goes for all market animals.  Additionally, our judges are not given contact with the exhibitors.

Also, ShowHeifer, some may shorten the name to call it a steer show, these shows ARE MARKET SHOWS.  My kid enters Junior Market animals.  Now, if you are showing heifers or such, it is another story but a steer is used only as a market animal.  Just because people use slang to describe it, doesn't change what it is.  That doesn't mean we can't make them as beautiful as we can, but they are still walking beef.

 

[justintime]

Unfortunately, there are just as many " goof ball" judges that come from the so called real world side of the industry. I think the two worst jobs of judging were done by two of the most acclaimed packer buyers in these parts. I had to swallow hard when I saw the steers these two " experts" picked. The females these guys picked were simply terrible. I mean everyone sees these critters a little differently, but this was beyond belief. These men are well known speakers at cattle industry events and are acclaimed for their knowledge about the industry. But when it came to using their eyes and brains to sort classes of live cattle, they could not do it. Without any doubt, the worst two judging jobs I have ever seen. I guess there are good and bad judges of live cattle in all sectors of the industry.

 

[Jeferin]

Let me ask this.. How many of the kids out there pick out there show steer at 600 - 800 lbs and say wow that is very nice steer?

How many say that steer is going to be a nice hanging carcass??? I wouldn't thing many. Most kids want to try and pick the nicest show type steer.

This year at our county fair I had two calves I sold for show steers. One kid fed his well and weighed 1385. The other not so well at feeding his right weighed 1102 (I try to tell him to change the feed for his steer, dad wouldn't listen and it was the nicer steer at the time). They were 7 lbs different when I sold them. Sitting in the barn many people commented on the 1385lbs steer (wow, nice steer, would look good in my freezer). No one said that of the 1102 steer. They were side-by-side in the barn. The 1385 lbs steer was champion crossbred, the 1102 won its class, approx. 10 steers in each class.

Well the moral of the story is the 1102 steer was 3rd in carcass and the 1385 was 11th out of 40 steers.

 

[cowz]

You mean at one point in time there were honest judges?

Those would be the ones fresh out of college......before the " I bought a calf from your brother, you owe me bunch" gets ahold.  If in doubt, hire a young judge with a true cattle background.

Interestingly, a large group of people boycotted the largest jackpot show in Colorado this summer over having the worst political judge of all time being hired.  Pretty easy to place the class based on WHO is at halter....or WHO whacks the calf in the butt as they come into the ring.   It was interesting to see who was at halter in place of a 9 year old.  It was so obvious it made me sick!  IT IS TIME FOR A FEW OF THESE GOOD OLD BOYS TO GIVE IT UP.   I'm a little tired of 50 year old 4-Hers.  This is for the kids....not the fitters.....sigh.

 

[Show Heifer]

Exactly what rock have you been hiding under cowz?  I know people who actually HIRE people to walk to the ring and take those "oh so important" steps into the ring and tail the calf. Pathetic, but sure effective.

 

[Steve123]

I can't believe that people want to judge. I was cured of that after about 5 shows in my young career and followed to my car a couple of times by parents. If you tell it like it is, people are mad; If you sugar coat it, people are mad; If you make the most obvious pick in the barn, people are mad. I have more people ask my opinion now then when I was judging, and they don't act like they are going to punch you in the face after you give it.

 

[doc-sun]

after 40 yrs of raising purebred cattle and showing them and many steers, only 15% of the people showing are affected by this discussion.  the other 85% get beat by selection, high trough disease, & other poor mgmt practices.  they need to spend more time at the barn getting ready for the judge instead of worrying about who  he is and knows.

 

[herfluvr]

Here is an interesting thought.  We show horses, beef and hogs only at fair.  I grew up with horses.  Politics?!?!  Been there and done that!  So when son wanted to get into showing beef and hogs-knew NOTHING- had a family member help and we have had some nice success.  We show.  Have shown high end horses around eastern half of the US.  Cattle are something we enjoy and strive to our best at and we don't show for the judge.  That's right.  We show for what we believe is our preference for the breed we are showing.  We try and learn and enjoy the process.  Consistency of work and quality have gotten us far.  People know our animals will be fed well, fitted and will be ready to show.  Don't much care what that person in th epen thinks.  We have won and been beaten with the same heifer we love that will raise son some great calves.  You don't like her?  Who cares.  We do.  We own her and we will probably be back the next year with something like her because that is what WE want in our small herd.  So work hard and be consistent.  People know good stock.  Buyers know who is going to give them the best deal.  We have repeat buyers every year.  Those people that play the politic game.  Go ahead.  And it will catch up to you.  The people they deal with.  They can keep.  Enjoy the process and what the industry has to offer and don't be so concerned with who the judge is for that day.  Show for yourself.

 

[Show Heifer]

Amen Herfluver, AMEN!!!

 

[simtal]

Showing livestock does have some undesirable siuations but how else do you get kids involved?  Considering most kids dont come from a farm background, its about the only thing going.  You cant take young kids to a plant or a feedyard and expect them to get interested, but it might get them to think about what they want to do. Showing atleast gets the career "spark" going.  I used to think that showing was the only thing that mattered...now I wonder why my folks got me invovled.  They tell me, "look were it got you--you have a career path now".  Showing teaches you many life lessons--many of which taught me what path not to go down.

 

[aj]

Was Joe Lewis a goofball when he went with the first crossbred as champ in Denver(in the early 70's)?  herflvr has a great point. The thing about a showsteer is that it is a terminal deal. If you don't win that pink ribbon you are done. With a heifer calf you are just getting started. If the judge doesn't like her maybe he will like her calf better in a couple years.